What brewery has raised prices enough that you can't justify purchasing anymore?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by SawDog505, Jan 11, 2015.

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  1. jefffalcone

    jefffalcone Initiate (0) Nov 9, 2013 Massachusetts

    Ommegang used to be cheap and I drank it all the time. I haven't even considered buying it in years. I'm pretty sure you have to pay 4 times what it cost back in the day.
     
  2. jefffalcone

    jefffalcone Initiate (0) Nov 9, 2013 Massachusetts

    I thought they were doing a seasonal release of sixers, but their website doesn't mention that. I'm pretty disappointed about this too.
     
  3. jefffalcone

    jefffalcone Initiate (0) Nov 9, 2013 Massachusetts

    How is bottle dating very expensive? I've seen this notion floated a few times, but I just don't see it. If it costs more that a couple of cents to date a bottle, the need to find a better way.
     
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  4. KingforaDay

    KingforaDay Defender (692) Aug 5, 2010 New Jersey
    Trader

    Any Brewery that starts a "Reserve Club" charging $25 per bottle and demanding money up front for 1-3 years would fall under this category for me.
     
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  5. Pisthetaerus

    Pisthetaerus Initiate (123) Dec 3, 2014 Connecticut

    Context does matter. The post that you responded to was not using the definition that you have continued to apply in this thread.

    For reference, here is the post that you responded to:

    As I pointed out (and as his responses have indicated) he was merely saying that their quality dropped and they increased their prices.

    There are some great definitions in the DSM-5 that would be applicable to the way you rigidly apply this one definition of a word regardless of context words of the people you respond to.
     
    #285 Pisthetaerus, Jan 16, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2015
  6. MaltLickyWithTheCandy

    MaltLickyWithTheCandy Initiate (0) Apr 22, 2013 Maryland

    Increased taxes are likely to blame. Happened in MD.
     
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  7. Pisthetaerus

    Pisthetaerus Initiate (123) Dec 3, 2014 Connecticut

    Don't know about other states, but I asked about sixers in CT and got this answer:

    https://twitter.com/lagunitasbeer/status/547466000505925632
     
  8. WebbMan15

    WebbMan15 Initiate (57) Feb 12, 2014 California

    I sure wish I could get some Maine Brewing here. Was in Maine last summer, and loved that beer. Didn't even notice the price; Lunch was the best beer I had while there. Couldn't get my hands on any Dinner. Loved the stout too. Luckily able to stash six bottles Lunch/Stout in my luggage, and all made it home fine. Going back this summer, hoping to have some Dinner!
     
  9. DGMGeneral07

    DGMGeneral07 Initiate (0) Jun 4, 2014 Massachusetts

    Hopefully their supply issues can ease up soon, the prices keep going up and they still sell and stock out. It is crazy how much the consumers want their beer (me included).
     
  10. keithmurray

    keithmurray Meyvn (1,343) Oct 7, 2009 Connecticut

    I always wonder if people buy their shit off the shelves. By me, their six packs of stuff like Dead Guy Ale and Hazelnut Brown cost $13.99 (that's on the LOW end). Honestly, if those beers were priced where they SHOULD be (around $8.99/6 pack is what they are worth) then I might buy them on occasion, but at their current price point, no way in the world would I buy any of them.
     
  11. keithmurray

    keithmurray Meyvn (1,343) Oct 7, 2009 Connecticut

    I honestly don't get the love for that beer. I've tried it a few times and I don't see how it is better than many other IPA's that are on the market.
     
  12. grimey68

    grimey68 Disciple (323) Mar 16, 2013 Pennsylvania

    The reason I said the exception of Victory at Sea is because that's the only offering of theirs that I can justify the cost on.

    Sculpin is good, but there are a sea of IPAs out there that are equivalent or even better, at a lower price point. Flower Power is a good example. If Sculpin somehow managed to drop to $12 a 6-pack in PA, I'd be buying it regularly.
     
  13. FFreak

    FFreak Defender (661) Nov 10, 2013 Vermont

    Mikkeller beers are outrageously priced. Wonderful beers and worth trying, but not ones that I would revisit due to the extreme pricing.

    Hill Farmstead Ann just announced through lottery for ~ $53 for 750 ml after tax and service fees. That's getting exorbitant for beer.
     
  14. FatBoyGotSwagger

    FatBoyGotSwagger Meyvn (1,384) Apr 4, 2009 Pennsylvania

    It's close to that, you can get a case for like 55$
     
  15. grimey68

    grimey68 Disciple (323) Mar 16, 2013 Pennsylvania

    An entire case is such a commitment for an IPA due to it losing freshness. I enjoy switching it up too much to do that.
     
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  16. AricGresko

    AricGresko Initiate (0) Jan 25, 2014 Pennsylvania

    I really think GF West Coast IPA might be one of my favorite heavy hitter IPAs. The numerous hops are so complex. Awesome beer I'll continute to buy even though I am trying to drink as many different ones as I can.
     
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  17. jefffalcone

    jefffalcone Initiate (0) Nov 9, 2013 Massachusetts

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  18. Pisthetaerus

    Pisthetaerus Initiate (123) Dec 3, 2014 Connecticut

    I see what you did there. But yeah, it does. Wish they'd get their heads out of their asses on this one. It'd be an easy go to IPA in a six pack.
     
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  19. grimey68

    grimey68 Disciple (323) Mar 16, 2013 Pennsylvania

    Just picked up some Terrapin regular Wake-n-Bake last night. On the shelf it said $10.99 (no tax) for a 4-pack. I take it up to the register and the guy rings it up as $15.99 and said it increased. They honored the $10.99 price for me, but WTF $5 increase?

    Bye-bye Wake-n-Bake if that's the case. It's not that good.
     
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  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,258) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    I hear you!!!

    Lately the only IPA (a DIPA in this situation) that I purchase by the case is Victory DirtWolf. I would prefer to purchase DirtWolf in a format smaller than a case but my local retailers want to maximize their profits on DirtWolf and charge about 10 bucks for a 4-pack. From a consumer economics point of view it makes sense to purchase DirtWolf by the case (it costs me in the mid-40s for a case).

    I really wish that I could justify purchasing DirtWolf in a smaller quantity. I have seen plenty of BAs from New Jersey mention they pay $7.99 for a 4-pack of Victory DirtWolf; that is a fairer price point.

    Cheers!
     
  21. Corbet

    Corbet Initiate (172) Nov 7, 2010 Michigan

    There will always be exceptions, but this is what I feel comfortable paying:

    BA Stouts - $30 or less for a 4-pack/bomber
    Sours - $30 or less for a 750, $15 for a 375
    IPAs - $20 or less per 4-pack, $10 or less for a bomber
    ---

    I haven't purchased a Bruery beer in over a year, Lost Abbey is routinely too expensive. Allagash has crept past the $15 mark for some of their sours, but they're so good that I'm willing to spend a little more.
     
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  22. Hair

    Hair Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2006 California

    I'm not a Green Flash fanboy. I bought their beer maybe 4 times in 2014. I think it is good beer, but I agree that it is a little expensive. But I have worked in the brewing industry for my entire adult life, and I have seen what they have done. I know exactly what they have spent their money on, and I know exactly what it costs. Their commitment to improving the quality of their beer is impressive. They didn't have to do much of it; they wanted to.

    They also invested in a low-fill detector. This uses a laser to kick any low fills off the bottling line. Not cheap. They are anything but greedy. The owner could have pocketed that money instead of spending it. If someone doesn't like their beer, that is a valid opinion. Think it is too expensive? Also valid. To say their quality dropped and prices went up out of greed is objectively false. That is what I responded to, nothing more.

    I never said no one can disagree with me. In fact, if someone doesn't like Green Flash beer at all, I am totally fine with that opinion. I have said as much several times in this thread. But to say they are greedy for investing in better equipment is just plain wrong (and that is what I responded to in the beginning). Also, their recipe changes make the beer cost MORE, not less. Their profit margin has gone down, not up.

    No, he said their quality dropped in favor of greed. He was wrong. Their quality was improved in several key areas, and these improvements cost money. Their profit margin is LOWER now. That is the opposite of greed.

    The equipment needed to date bottles costs several thousands of dollars. To buy good equipment that *actually works* on a high-speed bottling line costs even more. Check out a production bottling line sometime. The per-bottle cost over a long period is very low, but it is a large up-front investment that smaller breweries cannot afford. Yes, Green Flash can afford it now, and that's why they bought it. They've been putting their money where it should go.
     
    #302 Hair, Jan 18, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2015
  23. Hair

    Hair Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2006 California

    In 2015 malt prices are going to rise. Some bad weather in malt growing regions in 2014 made quality malt suitable for brewing very scarce. The maltsters are going to charge more to suppliers like Country Malt and Brewer's Supply Group. The breweries will pay more and have to pass this cost on to their distributor, who will pass the cost on to the seller (bottle shops, bars etc...) and at the end of the line the customer will no doubt blame the brewery for being greedy rather than placing the blame on the weather or any other middle man in this system. The same thing happened during the hop crisis. As a head brewer that works 60 hours a week and makes less than 20K a year, I think the notion of us "greedy brewers" is kind of sad. When did beer geeks get so cynical and nasty?

    Believe me, it isn't the breweries that win out in the three-tier system. We have the least amount of power to flex when it comes to pricing. Yet, we get all of the blame.

    All of that said, yeah, when a brewery raises its prices (above what is typical for the area and the beerstyle), I think it is valid for consumers to stop buying their beer if they don't think it is worth the price. Sculpin is a great beer, but I don't buy it because it is too expensive. To say this is "greed" on the part of Ballast Point is just missing... well... the point. Notice how some stores charge more for it? They charge as much as they can get. Ballast Point isn't getting more in return from the stores that charge more than others do, nor are they telling them to charge more. When a beer sells extremely well, prices go up. That happens at the end of the line (bar, bottleshop) more than at the beginning (brewery), though of course it allows Ballast Point to charge more to their distributor as well.
     
    #303 Hair, Jan 18, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2015
  24. Meekes

    Meekes Initiate (0) Nov 11, 2014 Georgia

    Prairie. I can't justify paying $25-$30 for a 4-pack.
     
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  25. Dansac

    Dansac Initiate (105) Dec 6, 2014 California

    I never said they were greedy for investing in better equipment. I said they were greedy because their beer did not improve while their prices did. I did not know they had done this significant expenditure in quality control and equipment. With that said, you are right in that it might not be greed that accounts for the increase in price, but their increased expenses directed at improving the quality of the beer.

    The point is, in any case, that if the beer just doesn't turn out as well, then all we have is a lesser beer and more expensive product, quality control or not. I unfortunately think that is the case.

    You say that "Their quality was improved in several key areas, and these improvements cost money." You confuse quality with equipment, technology and quality control. Bigger budget, more testing, and more thorough technology does not guarantee a better product. I admire them for expanding while trying to improve rather than the opposite. But, for whatever reason, the beer just is not as convincing.

    I told you why I thought so, but you keep bringing up the hardware and testing. If your logic applied, then sequels would generally be better than their predecessors, and growth would entail improvement. It's not generally the case, and its not here either.

    Also, other breweries are putting out better beer, for less money. Lagunitas Sucks is a lot better than West Coast IPA, or GF IIPA. Brown Shugga, Born Yesterday, and even Sumpin Sumpin are better beers. Hop Stoopid is at least on the same tier as the IIPA, and it costs 2-3 dollars less. For bombers, Noble Ale Works, Stone, El Segundo, Kern River, AleSmith all make superior beer, with consistent quality, and it costs significantly less. And let's not even get started with Le Freak or Saison Diego, or their Rayon Vert. Their Double Stout (which I haven't seen in a while) is a damn good value, though.

    Whatever it is Green Flash is doing to guarantee quality, the fact of the matter is their beer is not a good value compared to others in the market. I think WC IPA is a good beer, and IIPA is also a good beer. Pallate Wrecker is excellent, when fresh. But other than that.
     
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  26. Dansac

    Dansac Initiate (105) Dec 6, 2014 California

    Wait, what? What beer of theirs was priced that high? That's ridiculous.

    I love, LOVE Prairie, but I have to agree that their pricing is starting to make me uncomfortable. Prarie Hop was one of my favorite beers of all time a couple of years ago (and it used to be a freaking 750ml bottle!), but this latest batch felt rather stale in comparison: far less bright, fizzier, and drank more like a good hoppy pils. It lacked the jammy grassy goodness. Cherry Funk was really meh.

    I love their Standard four-packs, though they go for $12.99-13.99 here. Bomb is really pricey... maybe you're thinking of a four pack of that?
     
  27. FatBoyGotSwagger

    FatBoyGotSwagger Meyvn (1,384) Apr 4, 2009 Pennsylvania

    There is now a case of Prairie, Prairie ale their saison for 100$, discounted 8$ from 108 at my local spot. It is large format bottles but it doesn't look good for them.
     
  28. Dansac

    Dansac Initiate (105) Dec 6, 2014 California

    That is ludicrous. Honestly, what the Hell?!
     
  29. Pisthetaerus

    Pisthetaerus Initiate (123) Dec 3, 2014 Connecticut

    Please point out the exact sentence where he said that. Then I'll laugh at your poor reading comprehension.

    Eh, Green Flash has been around long enough to know if their product has gotten worse. Regardless of added expenditures, going forward with price increases despite knowingly putting out a lesser product is at least slightly greedy imo.
     
    #309 Pisthetaerus, Jan 18, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2015
  30. tmbgnicu

    tmbgnicu Devotee (491) Mar 15, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    Another vote for Sculpin. I love it, but when it shows up in my area, its $15-18 a 6pk. That's just ridiculous. I guess it's good to know that it seems to be that high everywhere except the west coast. And I'm gonna throw out my local breweries who charge more than virtually every other brewery for a 6pk. You're local!
     
  31. Patbrown2

    Patbrown2 Initiate (130) Nov 27, 2013 Connecticut

    This feels like the equities bubble of the late 90s.

    Its one thing for the # of breweries to quadruple in 10yrs, but how can pricing for most everything good keep going up like this? Would love to hear stories of breweries who had to reverse their pricing strategies because they were too aggressive
     
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  32. Blueribbon666

    Blueribbon666 Zealot (511) Jul 4, 2008 Ohio

    That & to me the Hoppin Frog I've had is so over the top, which I enjoy sippers but a bomber by myself of their stuff is a tall order. It's great for sharing & tastings but otherwise it's too pricey if I'm not going to finish the bomber in one sitting. I'd be down w/4 packs or pints, hell Rockmill & Ommegang even offer smaller offerings.
    I'm this way for bombers in general, if I can't kill it myself in a sitting I buy something else.

    I have to say Founders Breakfast Stout going up in price & backing off from the proposed sixer offering has steered me away a bit & I find myself buying more Porter & saving the jack for Backwoods.
     
  33. bluehende

    bluehende Poo-Bah (2,149) Dec 10, 2010 Delaware

    I am sure there are examples and if not they are definitely coming. It will start with mediocre stuff first and move up the food chain. It will be interesting how far up it goes. My hope is that the good stuff (not great stuff) will come down a bit for selfish reasons.
     
  34. pagriley

    pagriley Meyvn (1,027) Oct 27, 2014 Illinois
    Trader

    2 small local breweries in Chicago have recently made my no-fly list:

    Arcade Brewing - none of their beers rate above a 84 (for beers with enough reviews to get a score) and they all cost $8 or $9 for ~6% bombers of basic beers. They came out with their first 6 pack and it was priced at $20 for a dark wheat ale, and the reason for the high price was because each label on the bottle was a different frame from a cartoon. I mean come on, put good beer in the bottle first!

    Temperance Brewing - are doing a release for their barrel aged stout in a few weeks and have announced the price as $85 a 4 pack... Enough said.

    I compare this to someone like Clown Shoes who has ~7-8% 4 packs at $9, and regular bombers at $6 (going up to $13 for barrel aged stuff). Not 'cheap',, but they have a good reputation, most of their beers rate around 90 and they have to ship from New England rather than the locals who are a few miles away...

    I don't care if you are just starting out and it is expensive to produce your small batches - you are just too damn expensive and your beer is way too average.
     
  35. georgiaboy8686

    georgiaboy8686 Initiate (0) Feb 2, 2013 Maryland

  36. Dansac

    Dansac Initiate (105) Dec 6, 2014 California

    You would think so! Who knows who's doing the tasting now and how things are being judged. It's a shame.
     
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  37. crazyfoMostout

    crazyfoMostout Initiate (176) May 16, 2013 Missouri

    Ten Fidy is $15/ 4pk around here. I'ts good, but it ain't that good. especially when I can by Old Raspy or Fbs for $9.
     
  38. Hair

    Hair Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2006 California

    He said "Green Flash dropped in quality and rose in greed, imo."

    Can I laugh at your poor reading comprehension now?

    Whether their product is better or worse is subjective. Charging more for a more expensive product is not greed, especially when the profit margin is *LOWER*. Use your head.
     
  39. Hair

    Hair Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2006 California

    Exactly. You didn't know. You made an assumption from ignorance. I pointed that out and explained, at length, why you were wrong. The correct response from you should be "thank you".

    There is no "might" about it. It was *definitely* not greed that caused their prices to rise.

    If your subjective palate doesn't like a beer that doesn't mean it "lesser quality". Is Budweiser a "low quality" beer just because most beer geeks don't like it?

    BTW, according to objective sales data, your opinion of Green Flash is in the minority.
     
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  40. REEK

    REEK Initiate (0) Jan 16, 2015 Massachusetts

    Just payed $6.50 for a 16.9oz Lunch. I loved it, worth the price for a first time drink but If i wanted to drink it more often I wouldn't pay unless it was a 4 pack.
     
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