What Constitutes a Classic?

Great thread idea. I think your criteria are great. The ones I'm least comfortable with would be 1.) An overwhelmingly good reputation and 4.) A defining contribution to the style. Sierra Nevada Celebration came to mind when I thought about a "classic." I think craft beer fans are not into Celebration. Perhaps they were at one point, but they no longer are. I could be way off with that assumption, it's the vibe I get around here. I also don't know if Celebration has any defining contributions for the style. I don't know the history of fresh hop ales. Nevertheless, even if Celebration doesn't have an overwhelmingly good reputation or if it hasn't made defining contributions, I still think many, myself included, would call it a classic.

I think longevity is a big piece of it. For that, I think beers like Chimay Blue/White/Red should be considered classics.

Edit: Sierra Nevada has a score of 92 on BA, so maybe it does have an overwhelmingly good reputation after all.

 

Yup, the Chimay brews are classics.

 

If the Chimay beers aren’t considered classics, are any beers a classic?

 

Some comments on the five points:

1. An overwhelmingly good reputation

But an overwhelming reputation with whom? Beer enjoyment is a subjective exercise and as discussed above what is considered a classic by American beer geeks can change with time. There is no doubt in my mind that Sierra Nevada Celebration is a classic but for those beer drinkers who are more recent to the craft beer scene and who think that if a beer isn’t hazy or have flavoring added than it is not worthy of appreciation likely will think differently here.

2. A (general) ease of access (I know this is relative, but ultimately all I'm saying here is if very few people have had it, it is not a classic no matter how good it may be)

This is an ‘interesting’ criterion. I personally have never had a beer from Westvleteren since it is unavailable to me but to state this beer is not a classic doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

3. A fairly long history of production (to my mind there is no such thing as an instant classic)

I concur with this criterion.

4. A defining contribution to the style under which the beer falls

But who gets to decide what is a ‘defining contribution”? This is a very subjective criterion.

5. The beer must still be in production

I agree with the criterion.

Cheers!

P.S. And yes, Chimay is a classic.

 

Would Budweiser be considered a “classic” beer?

 

What constitutes a classic?
Endurance is my answer, and this applies to songs, bands, cars, movies, etc.

Anything worthy of classic status is at that level because it has continued to meet or exceeded standards, and has stood the test of time.

My beer anwer is Weihenstephaner, all of thier beers are classics of thier respective styles. Prost.

 

Do what you want, this is your channel.

I for one will not be watching it.

Cheers!

 

Generally, I think those criteria are pretty good. Availability - that one is tough and I think some have alluded to it. I can't readily obtain many beers I would consider classics - Westvleteran, etc. The other one that may be a tad shaky is requiring that the beer is still in production - Dusenbergs and Packards are no longer in production but they are classics nonetheless, but that's nitpicking for beer. Maybe there's a category of "legendary" that would be applicable for a beer no longer being brewed.

Maybe consider the impact on the industry - possibly that is incoporated in No. 4.

Realistically this would need some boundaries established otherwise it becomes endless. What I think your criteria do very nicely is avoid "hypercreating" - all the flavor of the week beers that may be outstanding in their own right should not be elevated to classic status, for instance. I'm thinking something like TreeHouse Julius - it's the parent of may variants and offspring, but only the OG version could approach being a classic (and mainly for defining the style, in my opinion).

 

Pliny and Heady are classics but each is distributed to only 2-4 states so it's hard to say they'd meet criteria #2, ease of access.

And to still be in production is eliminating some beers that should be called classics. CBS would be the first that I can think of... and my brain just went blank.

 

Longevity, accessibility, and timelessness. Reference Celebration, beer trends come and go but a beer like Celebration is a classic.

As for Heady Topper, I’ve never had if read it’s an absolutely incredible beer, but is it a classic? If it’s limited to a relatively small geographical area can it truly be considered a classic? Again, I’m not saying it’s not worthy of the greatness and accolades at all, nor faulting the brewer for keeping the distribution tight, but my opinion is that it needs to be more widely available to be a classic. I agree with the Westy/ St. Bernardus analogy. I’ve had both, and to me St Bernardus falls squarely into the classic category and Westy is in the “amazing but not classic” arena.

Just my .02 though, I certainly don’t fault anyone who disagrees with me

 

No.

Really? Says who?

No.

Why? Do all those brewers call those beers quads?

Whose fault is that?

Really? Says who?

 

From my above post (#6):

“…with whom?”

“…who gets to decide what is…”

The replies from the OP reminds me of a:

 

Celebration sells around 25k barrels a year. Treehouse (probably the most highly renowned maker of hazy ipas) produces a total of around 40k barrels per year, and that includes many beers that are not hazy ipas.

I would say that, within the segment of the population that enjoys "craft" beer it's pretty hard to deny that Celebration enjoys "an overwhelmingly good reputation".

To your broader question, i think you have good criteria. The only thing that I would say is that you might want to consider how available these beers are in Belgium when talking about that criteria. I get wanting to avoid obscure micro brews, but it seems like a lot to insist that the beer must be widely available on the opposite side of the ocean to be considered "available".

I think Weihenstephaner or Ayinger are Great examples. Surely there must be some classics among their lineup, but they aren't necessarily super available to me on the opposite side of the world. That doesn't make them obscure, they're just not making beer at volumes appropriate to fill every market.

 

i would say sales figures prove #1. As for #4 i don't think that matters. The 3 Chimays are classic

 

You don't think Anheuser-Busch's Budweiser had a "defining contribution" to the American Adjunct Lager style? After a century and half (for much of that period the best selling beer in the US), if it didn't no beer did.

 

What I would like to see as a beer geek is a well produced video covering the history of century(ies) old breweries, what and where they are brewing, where one can find their products and perhaps a brief 30-60 second take of their top 1-3 widely distributed offerings. Bonus if you film at an actual brewery, a tour, in their taproom, perhaps interviews with brewers, PR folks and/or management.

I believe you'd get the most hits starting with the well known classic American breweries still brewing today (Anheuser-Busch, Coors, Frankenmuth, Leinenkugel, Miller, Schell, Stevens Point, Yuengling), but the classics around the globe would also generate a good deal of interest.

Could be a multi-year/decade(s) passion project, with trips to spend at breweries to film, interview, tour, drink, discuss with fellow customers, enjoy the brewery and area.

 

I have to admit that I'm both perplexed and scandalized that Celebration isn't considered as having made a lasting contribution, considering it's the precursor to the whole of the American IPA family.

 

Harpoon IPA is a classic. Its been around long enough and is sold in enough states.
Long Trail Ale could be a classic because its been around long enoug but its a style many people dont care about and I dont think its sold in enough states. So to me that one is iffy.

 

I'd vote Goose Island Bourbon Barrel stout is a classic. Same with Bell's Two Hearted.

 

How about Leffeweiser and Hoegaardenweiser? They'd probably meet the criteria for at least some segment of the population, and they are Belgian.

 

I am constantly amazed at the BA community's ability to completely ignore an OP and just run with posting random shit instead

 

My thoughts are this:
1. An overwhelmingly good reputation
2. A (general) ease of access (I know this is relative, but ultimately all I'm saying here is if very few people have had it, it is not a classic no matter how good it may be)
3. A fairly long history of production (to my mind there is no such thing as an instant classic)
4. A defining contribution to the style under which the beer falls
5. The beer must still be in production

As far as Belgians, I'd put Chimay, Chouffee, St bernadus, as my notion of a "classic" to start, but I'm a novice. Be an interesting idea to put what novices believe as classics to the test to see if that's where they should start. I'd love to get further into the Belgian style

my buddy and I tried this idea, with mixed results on our channel Grow in the Glass, but we don't get into the history

..and i also shoulda read the original post better

 

Why break with tradition? You were fitting in right away!

Also, welcome aboard. Hope you enjoy the wonderful information and robust opinion on offer on the site. And I agree with your two proposed classics. Two Hearted is definitely a cornerstone beer in my personal journey.