what is 20L, 80L crystal malt ?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by KimJohn, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. KimJohn

    KimJohn Dec 14, 2012

    I have what appears to be a great recipe guide and am a new brewer. What does 20L or 80L or aat least 80L mean in the description of a crystal malt?
     
  2. LeRose

    LeRose Nov 24, 2011 Massachusetts
    Subscriber

    KimJohn likes this.
  3. KimJohn

    KimJohn Dec 14, 2012

  4. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    roast or toast : )
     
  5. Oneinchaway

    Oneinchaway Jun 12, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    This is my scale of looking at it for Crystal malt. Took this advice from the head brewer at 21st Amendment.

    10L = More Honey-like Flavor / Lightest Color Contribution
    60L = Perfect Caramel Flavor / Medium Color Contribution
    120L = Burnt Caramel Flavor / Darkest Color Contribution
     
    CBlack85 likes this.
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Lovibond simply represents the amount of color that will be imparted to the wort. It's not (directly) a degree of roast. Crystal malts are not necessarily roasted. Some are kilned.
     
  7. LeRose

    LeRose Nov 24, 2011 Massachusetts
    Subscriber

    Correct...good catch. The web link explained it better.
     
  8. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    As are base malts, I believe.
     
  9. kjyost

    kjyost May 4, 2008 Manitoba (Canada)

    I use British crystal malts and personally find that in the higher end (90-120L) the malts tend to give dried fruit (raisin & dates) flavours.
     
  10. bulletrain76

    bulletrain76 Nov 6, 2007 California

    While there are kiln-caramel malts, I've never seen them in a homebrew shop. Cargill is the only company I know of that makes them and pretty much just for large brewers. Who am I missing?
     
  11. bulletrain76

    bulletrain76 Nov 6, 2007 California

    Yep. Base malts are kilned. Crystal/caramel are almost always roasted in a drum roaster except for kiln-caramel, which are partially caramelized malts, and like I mentioned above, I've never seen them in a homebrew shop or seen anyone talk about them here. The drum roaster lets the maltster seal in moisture at lower temperature, which is the stweing step that converts starch to sugar, before releasing the moisture and ramping the temperature up to higher than kilns can go, which fully caramelizes the sugars and gives the varying degrees of roasted flavors.
     
  12. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    "except for kiln-caramel, which are partially caramelized malts, and like I mentioned above, I've never seen them in a homebrew shop "

    Could this be what Briess is touting as their "different" Carapils? http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/carapils-in-a-dipa.60341/

    I think there must be some marketing going on here : )

    Edit: I think I may have linked you to the wrong thread...go to Briess website if I sent you on a wild goose chase.
     
  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Dingeman's I think.
     
  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Edit: I'm looking now and seeing conflicting info on Dingemans Cara malts.
     
  15. bulletrain76

    bulletrain76 Nov 6, 2007 California

    No, not Briess carapils. Maybe that is how they make that, but that's now what I was thinking.

    Check this info on kiln vs roasted caramel malts from Cargill:

    https://www.cargillfoods.com/na/en/products/malt/malt-information/index.jsp
     
  16. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    I'm really asking for it here, but here goes ...caramel is caramel... no matter what...Lovibond (color/tint-flavors) differ, but aren't all Caramel/Crystals devoid of ensymes? WTF am I missing here?

    I guess it comes down to personal preference again.
     
  17. Oneinchaway

    Oneinchaway Jun 12, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    Good info!
     
  18. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    "The one objectively beneficial flavor characteristic of the kilned product is a comparatively lower astringency contributed to the finished beer" (from the Cargill website)

    anyone had astringency problems with regular caramel? I didn't think so.
     
  19. bulletrain76

    bulletrain76 Nov 6, 2007 California

    Not a problem, but I think there is a level is astringency contributed by darker caramel malts as part of their desirable flavor profile. If you are looking for some body/color but not any burnt caramel flavor, it makes total sense that the kiln-carmel equivalent could have a smooth, less roasted flavor. I think you are thinking of astringency as necessarily bad when that's not the case.
     
  20. tngolfer

    tngolfer Feb 16, 2012 Tennessee

    911 - calling the crystal police.
     
  21. tngolfer

    tngolfer Feb 16, 2012 Tennessee

    "what is 20L, 80L crystal malt ?"

    Only the worst thing in the world according some on this board.
     
  22. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Kilned caramel is a kinder, gentler devil : )
     
  23. inchrisin

    inchrisin Sep 25, 2008 Indiana

    I don't remember where I read it, but is there any truth behind the lovabond being tied to how long the grain is kilned/steamed? 80L=80 minutes of cook time?
     
  24. Tashbrew

    Tashbrew Dec 29, 2007 California

    The term Cara is pretty universal but the terms tied to them are specific to the maltings they come from.

    Cara-pils is a registered trademark for Briess Malt and it is a very low color 'Dextrin Malt'. Weyermann produces the same thing but has to sell it as 'Cara-foam', Great Western cleverly calls it 'Dextra-Pils'. It goes on and on. Trade names and specs are not universal...do your research!
     
  25. yinzer

    yinzer Nov 24, 2006 Pennsylvania

    I don't think so. But I think of L in terms of finished beer. It's a measurement of how much light reflects through the beer. And when a beer is really dark they cut it in half and try again. There is a good schpeal about it on TBN. The color(?) show.

    I always thought the for grains it's a reverse engineering of what the result will be. Which is pretty much a silly number.
     
  26. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    It is a color rating. Color is developed by time and temperature.
     
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