What is your Best IPA/ DBL IPA recipe

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by TIMMYJ21, Dec 27, 2012.

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  1. OldSock

    OldSock Zealot (570) Apr 3, 2005 District of Columbia

    Old Brewing Techniques Article by Glenn Tinseth: http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue2.1/tinseth.html

    "According to Peacock and Deinzer... bottle cap liners tend to absorb many hop compounds, especially hydrocarbons and longer chain ketones and esters. Hop oil alcohols appear not to be absorbed well by cap liners. Because we can do nothing about acid hydrolysis, this diagnosis points to a rigorous elimination of oxygen from all beer packages and to the use of a nonabsorptive bottle cap liner"
     
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  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,565) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Thanks for the link and reference! So, it is my understanding that what provides hop aroma are the essential oils of the hops. Your reference states: “Hop oil alcohols appear not to be absorbed well by cap liners”. Is it safe to make the next statement: Hop aroma appear not to be absorbed well by cap liners?

    Cheers!
     
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  3. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California
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    If you're looking for volatile stuff better way to do that would be solid phase extraction (SPME) of the headspace of a cap put in a jar with GC-MS analysis. If you're looking for volatile hop aroma compounds, GC-MS & SPME are what I did a lot of when I worked in collaboration with Sierra on hop aroma.
     
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  4. JimmyTango

    JimmyTango Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2011 California

  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,565) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society


    “I worked in collaboration with Sierra on hop aroma”. So, do cap liners absorb hop aroma?

    Cheers!
     
  6. mountsnow1010

    mountsnow1010 Initiate (0) Jan 23, 2009 Vermont

    Very interesting. I'll have to look into that a bit more. Or maybe you can convince Sierra to pay you to do that to expand on your previous work with them! :wink:
     
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  7. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California
    Deactivated

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  8. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California
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    Yes. Hydrocarbons = terpenes (myrcene and b-pinene, etc.) and sesquiterpenes (b-caryophyllene, a-humulene).
     
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  9. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California
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    Can probably forward you some articles (Think I still have them)... Hop chemistry would be cool to go back to, it was really fun, and was a lot of cool analytical chemistry & methods development... Unfortunately I've switched research fields completely :slight_frown: (Signal Transduction involved in memory formation)
     
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  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,565) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Thanks for the education!

    What would be examples of Hop oil alcohols? And if at all possible could you use layman terms. I never took organic chemistry. I did take several terms of ‘regular’ chemistry in college but that was a long time ago.

    Cheers!
     
  11. mountsnow1010

    mountsnow1010 Initiate (0) Jan 23, 2009 Vermont

    Ah, bummer. If you have them I would definitely like to take a look when you get a chance! :slight_smile: It sounds like a very cool field. I really enjoy all aspects of brewing science but the raw chemistry of it really tickles my fancy for some reason. Here's to hoping you find your way back to hop chemistry! (and perhaps via a lucrative consulting gig)
     
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  12. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California
    Deactivated

    I'll do my best to use some layman/general terms, unfortunately, organic chemistry tends to be a bit wordy and have a lot of nomenclature.

    Linalool, geraniol, geranyl-geraniol are three hop alcohols that come to mind. The suffix, -ol, denotes an alcohol (Contains at least one hydroxyl group -OH), while the suffix -ene lets you know it contains at least one pair of two carbon atoms in a double bond (H2C=CH2) (e.g. pinene, myrcene). The terpene molecules I mentioned earlier contain double bonded pairs of carbon atoms, hence the -ene in terpene.
     
  13. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    9# 2 row
    1.5# Munich
    1/2# C-55
    1/2# Wheat malt
    1/2# Sugar
    1 oz Chinook FWH
    1 oz Centennial @15
    1 oz Citra @ 5
    1 oz Galaxy @ KO (170 for 10)
    1 oz Columbus @ KO (170 for 10)
    1/2 oz Nelson Sauvin @ KO (170 for 10)
    DH in purged keg: Rakau, Citra and Galaxy 1oz, Columbus, Nelson 1/2 oz
    Mash 150, Ferment 65 US-05
    1.060 OG 1.010 FG
     
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  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (5,565) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society



    A BIG CAVEAT: A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!

    Below is some information I gleaned from varying source:

    Glenn Tinseth white paper entitled: “The Essential Oil of Hops: Hop Aroma and Flavor in Hops and Beer”:

    “Hop oils are made up primarily of a hydrocarbon fraction, (containing only H and C), and an oxygenated fraction (H, C and O). There are also small amounts of sulfur containing compounds but we will neglect them in this context. The hydrocarbons typically make up 80-90% of the total oil; the terpenes myrcene and b-pinene, and the sesquiterpenes b-caryophyllene and a-humulene are found in the largest quantities. Two of these, b-caryophyllene and a-humulene, can be easily oxidized in air, thus contributing to the oxygenated fraction of the oil as well. Other oxygenated compounds include alcohols such as linalool and geraniol and esters such as geranyl isobutyrate and methyl dec-4-enoate. Although many brewers think esters are all fermentation by- products, hops can contribute a number of fruity aromas, grapefruit and pineapple for example.”

    So, it appears that cap liners can absorb some of the hop aromas of the terpenes myrcene and b-pinene, and the sesquiterpenes b-caryophyllene and a-humulene. The cap liners can absorb some of the esters such as geranyl isobutyrate and methyl dec-4-enoate. Apparently the cap liners do not absorb much of the hop alcohols such as linalool and geraniol.

    I goggled linalool and geraniol and apparently those compounds provide flavors/aromas that are described as floral and fruity.

    If I misstated anything in the above please set me straight.

    Cheers!
     
  15. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (2,028) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Then I could definitely use your help.
    So what do you do for a living?
     
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  16. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California
    Deactivated

    Nice summary from Tinseth. The Humulene oxidation products (epoxides and alcohols generated from oxidation of the double bonds in terpenes, humulene in this case) smell awesome, very floral, fruity and spicy. I actually synthesized them in the lab by treating humulene with oxidizing agents and purifying the products.

    Our good 'ol buddy aficionado would probably chime in that he would never bottle his beer because cap liners caused myrcene loss, as that is the only hop oil that matters (Or Vikeman might, if it was April 1st...).
     
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  17. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California
    Deactivated

    EDIT. I'm an idiot.
     
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  18. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (2,028) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Sorry. Joke Fail. You know... you study memory formation... I need help with that...what were we talking about again? <going down in flames...>
     
  19. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California
    Deactivated

    See edited response above. Joke successful.
     
  20. bulletrain76

    bulletrain76 Defender (616) Nov 6, 2007 California

    This is working pretty well right now

    For 5.5 gallons at the end of boil:

    16.5P OG
    83% North American 2-row pale
    7% North American Munich
    5% corn sugar
    2.5% British Caramalt 30/40
    2.5% Carapils

    Mash for one hour at 145, 15 minutes at 155, and then mashout before lautering. Use RO water and 2:1 gypsum:CaCl to get over 100ppm Calcium

    90 min. boil
    50IBU of German Magnum at start of boil
    1.25oz Cascade at 30min
    1.25oz Centennial at 15min
    2.5oz each of Cascade and Centennial at end of boil
    30 minute hot stand before chilling

    Pitch about 16 million cells/ml of London ale yeast and start fermentation at 63F. Let rise to 66F. After a couple more days, let rise to 70.

    Dry hop as soon as you hit terminal gravity (2.5-3P) with 1oz of cascade and 2oz of centennial. Three days later, pull hops and dry hop again with 1oz of Amarillo, 1oz of Chinook, and 2oz of Simcoe. Let sit for three more days, pull hops, and crash cool. Package with 2.6 volumes of CO2.
     
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  21. bulletrain76

    bulletrain76 Defender (616) Nov 6, 2007 California

    I'm remembering someone (Jim Koch maybe) say that can liners actually have the same property of absorbing aromatics (similar material I think). With all that surface area, if this is true, it would seem that cans could potentially be worse than bottles.
     
  22. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Poo-Bah (1,901) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Society

    That 30 min addition isn't doing anything.

    :grimacing::grimacing::grimacing::astonished: Had to.
     
  23. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Zealot (598) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont

    This makes sense to me. But in practice, if you drink canned and bottled SNPA or Torpedo side by side, the can blows the bottle away. Bottle caps and cans both expose the beer to plastics which could absorb some aroma compounds. Both let in some oxygen during the packaging process. The only significant difference I see is that the can blocks all light while the bottle admits a little.
     
  24. samtallica

    samtallica Initiate (0) Jul 22, 2010 North Carolina

    House IPA:

    5.5 gallons
    92% 2-row
    8% crystal 20
    Mash at 150 for 90 minutes.

    Bitter to 70 IBUs
    1 oz Centennial at 10 minutes
    .5 oz Citra at flameout
    .5 oz Amarillo at flameout
    Dry hop with one ounce each of Citra, Amarillo and Centennial for 7 days.
     
  25. Pete_2112

    Pete_2112 Initiate (0) Nov 15, 2014 Colorado

    I just kegged this one and wow. It is piney, floral, citrusy, and dank. It is for you hop heads out there. Lots of dry hopping (one ounce per gallon). There is also a slight cracker malt flavor to back up the hops. I made this recipe myself for my first ever IPA. So delicious!

    Uncle Pete's IPA: 2.5 GALLON BATCH (double ingredients for 5 gal)

    5.5lbs 2-row
    8oz C-40

    0.35oz Chinook 60min
    0.25oz Cascade 30min
    0.25oz Simcoe 15min
    0.25oz Simcoe 5min
    0.25 oz Simcoe 0min
    0.75oz Cascade 0min
    1.5oz Mosaic dry hop
    1oz Chinook dry hop

    Yeast: California Ale WLP001
    Mash 148-150F 90min
    Boil 90min
    69IBU
    SRM: 8
     
  26. OldSock

    OldSock Zealot (570) Apr 3, 2005 District of Columbia

    Almost three years later...

    Manley continues, “The plastic argument also doesn’t hold much water with our lab analysis. The plastic lining in cans can scalp flavor but crown liners can scalp as much, or more, than can liners. The plastic under a crown is more dense than can-liners and can have a far more detrimental effect on flavor, specifically hop flavor. Our research shows little-to-slight deviation in longevity and hop aroma trials over extended aging. In fact, it gives a slight edge to cans at 120 days.”
    - Source
     
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  27. CADETS3

    CADETS3 Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2014 Texas

    What hope did you use for this and what yeast?!
     
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