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What the dang-nabbit heck is a saison lager?

Discussion in 'Mountain' started by Mebuzzard, Apr 7, 2013.

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  1. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard May 19, 2005 Colorado

    I'm assuming it's a saison recipe with lager yeast, but then is it a saison??

    Hall Brewing has this out right now. While certainly there are issues with the name, I'm just wondering if this is even possible. Gonna drink it tonight, though.
  2. Domingo

    Domingo Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    Looking at their site, it seems a little confusing...kind of like them calling several of their beers "Farmhouse" when that has a different connotation in the beer world.
    This is what their site says. Seems to be using conflicting or at least confusing terms (lagering and esters from the yeast), although that doesn't mean it doesn't taste good, so post what you think of it!

    ‘Tis the season! Our Saison lagers for three months just in time for an equinox or solstice release. We have gently tempered our traditional Saison with oak spirals to balance esters from the yeast, and kept the hay out of it. Only available while it lasts!"

  3. Mothergoose03

    Mothergoose03 May 30, 2005 Michigan

    If they call it a Saison Lager, I'm okay with that, and we all know what they're saying with that name if the yeast is the difference. If it's a lager and they just call it a Saison, well shame on them. If they are trying to say they "lager" their Saison with the oak spirals, well, that's all good with me too as long as the beer is good.
  4. Soonami

    Soonami Jul 16, 2008 Pennsylvania

    "Lager" in this usage is as the verb (meaning stored cold for long periods of time) not noun (beer fermented at cool temperatures with a bottom-fermenting yeast), so that "Our Saison lagers for three months..." means, "Our Saison is aged cold for three months"
  5. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard May 19, 2005 Colorado

    I see what you mean. The label reads "seasonal Saison farmhouse lager". That'll confuse people fer sure
  6. Soonami

    Soonami Jul 16, 2008 Pennsylvania

    yeah that label reads like it was made by someone in artistic/design that don't really understand what the terms used mean, but wanted to put in as many buzzwords as possible to attract attention. I'm surprised they didn't use the terms "artisanal," "rustic," or "session" as well
  7. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard May 19, 2005 Colorado

    just drank (some of) it. Still have no idea what it is
  8. CK21

    CK21 Feb 6, 2011 Colorado

  9. knucks999

    knucks999 Sep 30, 2008 Colorado

    Isn't a lagered saison pretty much a bier de gard?
    MGambleWWS and Domingo like this.
  10. Domingo

    Domingo Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    While I'm sure we can piece together what they're likely shooting for - I think they just would've been better off using some different terminology.
  11. joshclauss

    joshclauss Oct 31, 2010 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    Well one thing is for sure - no matter how wholly confusing their naming is, they're sticking with it. It does seem like they're doing it just to stir up BA, though.

    I'm really looking forward to their Farmhouse Russian Imperial Hefe-Porter.
  12. Soonami

    Soonami Jul 16, 2008 Pennsylvania

    Traditionally most Saisons are lagered and not meant to be served fresh, mostly because people usually brewed in the winter when there wasn't much farm work to be done so that they'd have enough to drink in the summer time when they spent more time in the fields. Also, beer brewed in the winter tended not to spoil as quickly.

    A biere de garde is a different animal. It's also a pale farmhouse ale, but generally it was darker in color, higher in maltiness, not as dry, less bitter, brewed with lager yeast and often higher in starting gravity than Saisons. They are related beers, but it's like the difference between an old ale and barleywine, a lot of overlapping similar characteristics but some specific differences.
    Knownfactor and arminjewell like this.
  13. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    Glad I'm not the only one who was confused on this one. Isn't lagering used to keep ester production at a minumum? And aren't saisons known for their esters?
  14. southdenverhoo

    southdenverhoo Aug 13, 2004 Colorado

    It makes me a) want to try their beer b) somewhat skeptical about their beer, all at the same time. Because that is one mixed bag of concepts, right there.
    joshclauss likes this.
  15. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard May 19, 2005 Colorado

    Please do. The hamsters in my skull have ran off their wheels trying to figure out these beers (just had their farmhouse pilsner...)

    MYJELLOMISFIT Jan 14, 2007 Colorado

    Hands down thee worst beer labels/names/styles descriptions in CO! Take "farmhouse" off the label. Lower the price. Give me ABV's. Labeling should be the easiest part of this whole thing. Why make it hard for even the Berds to figure out what your beer is.

    MYJELLOMISFIT Jan 14, 2007 Colorado

    Don't forget the ABV-less Imperial Belgian Doppel Light Lager-Ale with German-style bread yeast!!
    It's like them and Paradox should mate and have barrel-aged Ameri-Belgo babies.
  18. southdenverhoo

    southdenverhoo Aug 13, 2004 Colorado

    barrel-aged Ameri-Belgo babies, I got to say that sounds like a good thing. (unlike "seasonal Saison farmhouse lager")
  19. Soonami

    Soonami Jul 16, 2008 Pennsylvania

    No ester/phenol formation occurs predominantly during primary fermentation and usually increases with temperature. Lagering helps reduce diacetyl, acetaldehye, some fusel alcohols, and generally conditions a beer by allowing it to almost completely off gas and use up most of the oxygen in solution.
  20. dauss

    dauss Aug 9, 2003 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    I had a rauch dunkle weizenbock this weekend....
  21. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    Yeah, and most saisons are fermented at very warm temps. The Dupont strain is notorious for needing temps approaching 90 degrees to ferment down without stalling.
  22. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard May 19, 2005 Colorado

    Paradox has some interesting combinations, but at least that complements their name, and they don't mis-use styles. Although it is difficult to figure out how their Project system works. And I like their tops! :cool:
  23. CObeer

    CObeer Sep 28, 2011 Colorado

    Agreed. Paradox does not misuse styles but they are certainly creative and trying to make interesting beers in very small batches with different malt/hop/yeast&barrel treatments and they are working out of a modest facility. Hall has a brand new large facility complete with bottling line and almost everything is confusing about their product... Labeling, style, abv, pricing, flavor profile. Colorado is a very competitive beer market that thrives on creativity but you eventually need to start making great beer. We have too many options in this state to settle for medocrity. I have no doubt that Paradox will eventually make a great beer...I just hope they will be able to repeat it. At the very least they will remain relevant because of their approach. What ever happens to Hall is up to them...they just need to start paying attention to what they are releasing into this extremely large and well-educated market place.
  24. dauss

    dauss Aug 9, 2003 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    Do these breweries come up with the labels after the beers they make or are they supposed to turn out like that?
  25. ColoradicalBEER

    ColoradicalBEER Dec 2, 2012 Colorado

    I'm more of a Double Russian Imperial Saison Red Lager man myself..
    scray24 likes this.
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