Who is the next brewery to be bought?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by StoutSnob40, Oct 3, 2015.

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  1. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,605) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    I don't doubt that someone said that to you, but I do doubt the offer was ever put forward, much less considered.
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  2. jesskidden

    jesskidden Pooh-Bah (2,969) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Two of Ken Grossman's kids, Sierra and Brian, are involved in the brewing company, and Grossman has made it clear he's passing the brewery on to the next generation.
  3. kfordham281

    kfordham281 Initiate (0) Oct 29, 2005 Georgia

    Good point. It's clearly not taking a deal off the table, but I believe it does make it more difficult as you need the votes of more individuals to get it done vs a handful like a non-ESOP brewery.
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  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,169) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Randy, that criterion makes sense if the existing AB brewers are set up properly to brew the craft beers that are purchased. The AB breweries are 'optimized' for the brewing of lager beers. Some of their breweries are brewing ales (Goose Island Ales): Baldwinsville, NY and Ft. Collins, CO. How readily their other breweries could be configured to brew non-lager beers is something I do not know.

    Maybe @Peter_Wolfe will provide input here.

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  5. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,605) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    This is so true. I've been to the new Mill's River location and seen the love and devotion put into brewery detail, landscaping, just simply the whole lay out is gorgeous and it's easy to see the attention to detail. This place is made for time and generations, and I'll bet Ken Grossman's grandchildren will one day run the place. I have a good friend from Mill's River that did lots of the metal work, and he's a true artist. The place will blossom through the years!
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  6. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    There may not be any rush to configure the lager breweries given their prior and continuing investments in Baldwinsville.

  7. Samlover55

    Samlover55 Pooh-Bah (1,589) Oct 8, 2015 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    rumors about Jim Koch selling Boston Beer
  8. MarshallBirdhouse

    MarshallBirdhouse Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2013 Kentucky

    I would love to see the collective butthurt if Treehouse sold to Inbev.
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  9. Peter_Wolfe

    Peter_Wolfe Initiate (0) Jul 5, 2013 Oregon

    Without getting too deep into the details, the lager (i.e. horizontal) breweries are not very good at making craft beers. We can do it, but it results in more raw material and beer loss than we would like.

    We are investing in a number of breweries, not just Baldwinsville, in order to make them more effective at making beers with higher hopping rates (specifically, dry hopping) and additionally avoid the massive beer losses that are typical in the average craft brewery. To give you some perspective, the average craft brewery loses 12-15% of the total batch when making a really hoppy beer. A lot of this is just the beer left with the hops after dry hopping. This might be acceptable in a brewery making 6000 barrels a year, but it's not going to fly at the AB scale when a tank might have 8,000 pounds of dry hops.

    There's a number of other tweaks to to increase the quality of hop aroma, etc. It's something I've been working on for a couple of years, and it's just now culminating in brewery designs.
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,169) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Peter, thanks for that input. I was suspecting that was the case.


  11. Joshjv

    Joshjv Initiate (0) Nov 12, 2013 Michigan

    I could see that. I've never been too big a fan of Great Lakes. It's always bothered me (being in Michigan) that the name Great Lakes Brewing belongs to a company in a state that touches 1 of the Great Lakes (and most certainly the LEAST Great of the Lakes). This would be what would bother me most if ABInBev or other bought them out and continued to use the name...
  12. nc41

    nc41 Initiate (0) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina

    Nah , the distro footprint needs to be a bit bigger I'd think. 21st maybe the others would shock me, wouldn't make much sense.
  13. CapCollector16

    CapCollector16 Initiate (0) Jan 6, 2015 Ohio

    As long as their beer tastes the same I don't care who sells out. I'm not gonna criticize anyone for wanting to cash in.
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  14. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,826) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    If you looked at the part I bolded you'd see that I wasn't responding to whether you disliked a beer that I liked. It was more for the overall style bias and anti-mainstream attitude. There is nothing inherently wrong with producing some beers with mass market appeal in mind; it's all in how well they are made. That Helles was a damn fine beer, maintaining the essential character of the style while putting their own spin on it- something we need more of, not less.

    It's that knee-jerk pushback against a brewer making themselves more well-rounded that's not sitting so well with me. The more homogenized craft beer landscape that would be the logical result flies in the face of what this has been about since the beginning.
    Me too, and that's the heart of the problem as I see it.
  15. ecpho

    ecpho Initiate (0) Mar 28, 2011 New York

    I'd guess the newer popular contract brewers with heavy marketing and packaging like Sixpoint and 21st amendment would be prime candidates for buyouts. Not that I would judge someone to sell out to ensure their family's future well being - I think one should do what they feel is best for them. They don't support a ton of brewery workers so if their operations had to move to one of the big macro brewery factories - it wouldn't be a big stretch from their current plan.
  16. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    8,000 pounds of dry hops in 1 tank. How large is that tank?
  17. Bosoxfan20

    Bosoxfan20 Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Missouri

    I have been hearing a rumor that Prairie may be eventually purchased by Choc. I certainly do not wish to spew nonsense all over this forum by saying this is happening, but I am curious if anyone else has heard this before? Quite different than your normal micro being acquired by macro as both breweries in this hypothetical transaction are micro.

    I don't see this happening, but it does seem like the farm project that Prairie had plans to move to hasn't had any momentum lately
  18. Dirtyhands

    Dirtyhands Initiate (0) Jul 3, 2014 Maryland

    Integrity is a thing. That is all.
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  19. dashmartino

    dashmartino Initiate (0) Aug 30, 2006 Pennsylvania

    I could see them going after Troegs, they are expanding well. Ditto on the parking lot thing.
  20. DavidHume

    DavidHume Maven (1,335) Mar 25, 2013 Virginia

    My math might be off, but that's got to be somewhere between 8,000 and 24,000 barrels in that tank, maybe less if they're doing more than one pound per barrel of dry hops. Are there even tanks that large?
  21. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

  22. jesskidden

    jesskidden Pooh-Bah (2,969) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    #142 jesskidden, Oct 19, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2015
  23. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

  24. Digital_luda

    Digital_luda Initiate (0) May 25, 2014 Connecticut

    I could see why people think 21A might be the next shot. Just from hearing Sully talking on the BN he doesnt seem like he would go that way. We will just have to wait and see i guess.
  25. MistaRyte

    MistaRyte Pooh-Bah (2,325) Jan 14, 2008 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I saw the tanks ~20 years ago back when Busch Garden did the brewery tour. The tanks are more of a "laying on the side" vs an up-in-the-air thing like you're used to, at least the tanks I remember were... and they are LONG.
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  26. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,169) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

  27. Ranbot

    Ranbot Pooh-Bah (2,327) Nov 27, 2006 Pennsylvania

    I didn't know...That's pretty cool though. Thanks!

    I wonder if the brewery has that many blue and orange panels and lights, because I expected more reds and whites... :wink:
    I see what you did there.... :grinning:
  28. Peter_Wolfe

    Peter_Wolfe Initiate (0) Jul 5, 2013 Oregon

    4400 barrels.
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  29. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    That's a pretty big tank, thanks.
  30. DeanMoriarty

    DeanMoriarty Initiate (0) May 9, 2010 California

    Totally agree with you on this one. was going to post this, but wanted to scroll through the thread to see if someone had the same thoughts as me.
  31. zach60614

    zach60614 Initiate (0) May 1, 2012 Illinois

    I've heard rumors that Revolution wants to entertain offers.
  32. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    If that happens why would anyone want to buy Green Flash.
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  33. southdenverhoo

    southdenverhoo Maven (1,341) Aug 13, 2004 Colorado

    Great Divide or Ska or Left Hand wouldn't surprise me at all in Colorado but I don't know any of the principals so that is based totally on size and profile. Owners of all three may be the last people on earth to consider an offer, for all I know.

    I wonder, in my original home state, Virginia, about Starr Hill. Also seems like the perfect size and profile, but again no knowledge of the principals and their reason for being in--and staying in--craft beer. Thought I remembered them as being in entertainment (DMB) and real estate development prior to the brewery but could be 100% wrong.
  34. 5thOhio

    5thOhio Initiate (0) May 13, 2007 South Carolina

    Those of you speculating on Great Lakes crack me up. You apparently know very little of the business philosophy of the Conway brothers. They are passionate about supporting the local community and being environmentally friendly, two concerns that would immediately be thrown under (or off) the bus if bought by Big Beer.

    However, rumor has it Three Floyds is shopping for investors to provide the capital to rebuild from the fire...
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  35. ERRL710

    ERRL710 Initiate (0) May 6, 2013 Illinois

  36. Vason

    Vason Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2008 Ohio

    The Brew Kettle.

    They're in an area of the country that AB is looking to pick someone up, just recently expanded production, and recently made some odd choices about distributorship that I think could hurt them enough to look for a boost in capital.
  37. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,169) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I agree 100% that Starr Hill would be a good target for acquisition from a size/profile perspective.

    I wonder if you would receive a finders fee if you prompted this business deal!?!:rolling_eyes:

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  38. OneDropSoup

    OneDropSoup Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2008 Pennsylvania

    Well that's a relief. You're right, I don't know that much about the Conway brothers' business philosophy. Thanks for explaining it in such a non-condescending way.
  39. jesskidden

    jesskidden Pooh-Bah (2,969) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Well, it looked like they were going in that direction (in a distribution arrangement similar to the original Redhook and Widmer deals, minus AB owning a share company) but they apparently stepped back from the ledge and ended the distribution agreement a few years ago.
    Although I imagine SH still uses some of those AB houses - that's the case in central Jersey where both Ritchie & Page and High Grade still list Starr Hill as their brand.
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