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Why is Citra so much more popular than CTZ/Summit/Apollo?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by samtallica, Dec 7, 2012.

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  1. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Nov 10, 2010 Virginia

    What Jack said.

  2. samtallica

    samtallica Jul 22, 2010 North Carolina

    Sounds like my kind of beer! Although I prefer to dry onion with red onions.
  3. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior May 21, 2010 Texas

    You mean sheeple. Glad to help. Just tryin' to get the troof out there. :D
  4. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior May 21, 2010 Texas

    Mmmmm... cat pee o_O

    I mock, but citra does kick ass though in every way. I once had an all citra mild that was hoppy as hell and was so amazing I could have drank about nine growlers of it before they even lost their carbonation.
  5. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior May 21, 2010 Texas

    I got the resin, and the dank, and even the fruity, but I haven't noted the onion from zombie dust though. Perhaps you can send me about twelve of them so I can try again. :D

    Must. Eat. Brains. :eek:
  6. Soneast

    Soneast May 9, 2008 Wisconsin
    Beer Trader

    If you're getting onion/garlic, cat piss from any of these hops, find a new supplier. Yes, it is possible for these hops to exhibit those qualities, but from my understanding (based on opinions gathered from listening to professional brewer and hop farmer interviews on podcasts), those hops have been on the vine too long. And when they receive "oniony" or "cat pissy" hops they send them back to their hop supplier. I wish I could remember the exact brewer that said this, but it was on a Brewing Network Sunday Session. I believe he was referring to simcoe in particular. And I've heard several other professionals in the business say the same thing. They SHOULD NOT have those characteristics.

    That said, certain individuals are bound to have varying tolerances for certain flavor and aroma compounds, so who's to say that what I smell/taste as dankness, fruit and citrus, that you don't perceive as garlicy, cat urine?
  7. samtallica

    samtallica Jul 22, 2010 North Carolina

    I feel like I just associate dank flavors with onion or garlic. It's not like the beers I'm brewing with these hops are garlic bombs, but the flavor is always there in the background when I use them in large quantities. I get the same dank, onion flavor in the background of a lot of professionally brewed beers that use these hops as well. Deviant Dale's, Gubna and Zombie Dust come to mind...

    And again, I don't find these flavors offensive in the least. I love a good, dank IPA. I'm just wondering why Citra gets all the love when it's just as dank as the other hops mentioned.
  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Below is a post that hopfenunmaltz made in a past thread. So, if a hop is providing an onion/garlic taste it has been on the vine longer.

    The issue of perceiving cat pee is dependent on how an individual perceives the compound 4MMP. So, if you are getting cat pee from a given hop (e.g., Citra, Simcoe) that is because that is how you ‘process’ 4MMP and not due to ‘old’ hops.

    Catty comes from a compound called 4MMP, men get pine out of it, women get cat piss. I always ask the wife to smell a piney beer, and she say cat pee. Simcoe and Citra are know to have it. The wet Cascade is a question mark.

    Onion/garlic is from a sulfur compound that comes out more if the hops are left to mature on the vine longer. Some varieties have more of it, like Summit. Columbus can have it, but the boil should drive it off.”

  9. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    My wife refers to Pliny as "Pine Sol". From my experience, if you do get "cat piss" from any hop, it will usually go away within a week or two
  10. GrahamWalters

    GrahamWalters Jan 15, 2009 Massachusetts

    Citra and Summit are no where near the same... Citra is much more fruity while summit is dank/oniony. Citra gets the love because it appeals to more people...
  11. memory

    memory Oct 2, 2005 Pennsylvania

    I agree. My experiences with using Citra a month after brewing a beer with it, it tastes on the dank side, but the citrus opens up to me especially around 6 weeks to 2 months.
    I associate Amarillo more like a bubblegum flavor. Chinook more like grapefruit.
    I bought a pound of Apollo and using it for the first time this weekend and hope it gives off orange.
    The only beer I tried that I know had used Apollo was a bottle from Magic hat and I hated it.
  12. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    I am very excited to brew the Kern River Citra Double Ipa clone from Can you brew it. It uses just over 7 oz. of citra hops for a 6 gallon batch as well as a touch amarillo. The on air tastings of the beer didn't include any cattyness. Lots of tropical fruit (pineapple, mango, papaya). Justin compared the aroma of the beer to that of a Mai Tai !!!! Now I just need to find citra and amarillo online??!!
  13. samtallica

    samtallica Jul 22, 2010 North Carolina

    Amarillo is pretty much impossible to find. Luckily I still have some from the 2011 crop. Citra is easier but you're going to pay for it. Get it now while you still can.
  14. mnstorm99

    mnstorm99 May 11, 2007 Minnesota

    Citra is hop aroma training wheels in my opinion. I love this hop, but have never used any other hop so easy to get that huge citrus aroma from. I buy a pound of Summit and CTZ every year, and I feel all of these hops are different.

    I do get the onion and garlic from Summit, and I really do not think it is a bad thing as it is not overpowering in any way. CTZ is more earthy and spicy to me. I also get a touch of weed aroma from Apollo. These are all pretty pungent hops that give big flavor and aroma, but there is a bit more to them than Citra which some people shy away from.

    I might also assume CTZ have a lot more acreage (between the three varieties), so they are not hard to find for that reason. Citra is still a pretty new hop, so there isn't nearly as much grown.
  15. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    The compound in Summit and others that cause the onion and garlic will boil off if used for a bittering hop. I assume that Summit is harvested late to give the highest AA for the comercial breweries that use it for bittering.

    CTZ does have the most acreage. That has been going down the last few years, as higher AA hops are coming on line. Citra is still under 1000 acres, but it has a large % increase every year.
  16. telejunkie

    telejunkie Sep 14, 2007 Vermont

    really...i thought citra was cool right out of the gate when SN introduced it as a feature in Torpedo back in '08 or '09.

    Here is what I do know...brewers have a huge library to choose from now, each hop brings something to the table. Use what you like and works for your palate. I have used Citra on a few occasions and like it...but not ready to join the black friday-like stampede to make sure it is in my freezer when released and pay several dollars an ounce.
    skivtjerry likes this.
  17. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Moderator Subscriber Beer Trader

    I might need to look that up . I have roughly 2 pounds of both 2012 crop in the freezer. Sounds nice!
  18. loony4lambic

    loony4lambic Nov 26, 2012 California

    Because its newer
  19. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Just type in can you brew it on iTunes and the list of there podcast should come up and it's labeled kern river Citra Dipa Or I can just post it here later on.
  20. mnstorm99

    mnstorm99 May 11, 2007 Minnesota

    My sentiments exactly...
  21. JimmyTango

    JimmyTango Aug 1, 2011 California

    I am also in this camp. Great hops, but not the only great hops.
  22. GregoryVII

    GregoryVII Jan 30, 2006 Michigan

    I get people who don't like devil dancer, but I think it is kind of difficult to blame any one hop given the number of different varieties used in this beer.
    MrOH likes this.
  23. SenorHops

    SenorHops Aug 10, 2010 Rhode Island

    Columbus is a great all around hop. I like to use it for bittering and flavor and throw in a bunch of more tropical hops at flameout. That really works well.
  24. loony4lambic

    loony4lambic Nov 26, 2012 California

    Long answer short. Its new
  25. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    “I like to use it for bittering and flavor and throw in a bunch of more tropical hops at flameout.” Yeah, I would think that combination would result in a tasty beer.

  26. clearbrew

    clearbrew Nov 3, 2009 Louisiana

    Thanks man, now all I'm gonna taste is cat pee!!!
  27. JDMCN

    JDMCN Jan 5, 2009 California

    IDK citra hops smell like piss.....
  28. Naugled

    Naugled Sep 25, 2007 New York

    Not simply piss, but cat piss, very different.... much more fragrant ;-)
  29. Naugled

    Naugled Sep 25, 2007 New York

    I like these threads too, it's very difficult to get too hop descriptions so the more people commenting on them the better.

    I recently brewed a double sunshine clone that is mostly Citra. I've used citra before but not in these quantities. It brings out a whole new dimension IMO. This batch was very full of flavor and aroma so I skipped the dry hopping because it didn't need it. My best description would be dank, resinous, and a deep sweet orange flavor, not bright and citrusy but deep. It does have a hint of cat piss and onion (my wife describes it as armpit) in the back ground but in a good way. I used 2013 crop and I'm very happy with it.

    One thing I did notice was that after about 12 days the flavor diminished dramatically. It is still very good but the striking flavor seemed to have dropped out over night. Based on what I've heard in this thread it sounds like it may change more over the next few weeks. I may even dry hop at some point.
  30. sarcastro

    sarcastro Sep 20, 2006 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    kdb150 likes this.
  31. Naugled

    Naugled Sep 25, 2007 New York

    I forgot to answer the OP, it's because its fairly new and tastes great. I'm looking forward to the next new great tasting hop to be introduced.
  32. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    According to Nathan Smith's presentation at NHC the next "new great tasting hop" is Equinox; it has flavors of citrus, tropical fruit and pine.

  33. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Moderator Subscriber Beer Trader

    This thread is also from 2012...
    APreacher and Naugled like this.
  34. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    I also brewed a double sunshine clone. I did a 10 gallon batch and dryhopped half with the recommended citra hops and half with simcoe centennial and chinook a la heady topper. The citra hopped half is amazing, the sim oe half... not so much. I am going to do a side by side this weekend with them.
    Naugled likes this.
  35. E-DUBB

    E-DUBB Nov 21, 2012 Texas

    im surprised there aren't any azacca sheeps.
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