Will you return to taprooms, bars, restaurants, and beer gardens or wait?

I like my home as the new "taproom" and the selection is amazing.

I support the local places but my driveway drinking nice!

 

While I can't wait to get out to taste some of the newest and best beers out there - some Buffalo, NY area breweries recently won gold awards - I think I'll wait and see how things are going first before I step foot in any bars or breweries.

https://buffalonews.com/2020/05/08/...ffalo_style_pizza_is_in_cheektowaga&utm_term=

 

I suggest you go back in this thread where I posted a scientific study about the efficacy of various masks before making declarative statements.

Exactly what amount of filtration does a mask need to provide before it is more than an illusion of protection? 8%? 41%? 71?%? Isn't *any* protection better than nothing? Are you familiar with the concept of harm minimization?

This isn't black and white and there is a lot of grey area between complete protection and no protection. "If I can't have complete protection I don't want any protection" doesn't seem like a solid argument to me.

 

I respect your opinion and see your point. Remember SARS and H1N1? Why didn’t we shut down for those? Still both corona viruses still contagious but we didn’t bat an eye and all the sudden it was gone. Immunity building is my next argument. Everyone’s immune systems will be shot once we start interacting again. There will be a spike, but won’t be corona. It’ll be something else but written off as corona and we’ll be right back to where we are now. I need a beer...

I see this argument a lot and the point it misses is that the numbers are relatively low in your area exactly because of the precautions being taken. I have high blood pressure, so I take medication to manage it, which is why when I take my BP it’s usually not bad. Does this make me think I should stop taking the medication? Of course not.

Now don’t get me wrong, if you’re smart and reasonably careful the chances of getting infected are probably reasonably low, and if you are young and have no underlying medical conditions the chances of dying are even lower (especially if you are female). But don’t forget that you could be asymptomatic and unknowingly transmit the virus to other people who are at higher risk. That’s the whole point a lot of people just don’t seem to get. Or refuse to.[/QUOTE]

 

CDC early March didn't recommend masks in the early stages of the covid spread through the country because the govt knew they blew it and didn't use it's powers to ramp up mask production for everyone. From what anyone knew from China, Italy and Iran, masks helped contain the spread. And I'm talking about proper masks, not the BS handkerchief kind they finally said was ok. So yes if the govt took warnings seriously, much less than 80,000 people would have died. No one should forget that.

 

Nah. We can agree to disagree. Memento mori.

 

I respect your opinion but my next concern will be how weak everyone’s immune systems will be once we start interacting again. They are all extremely

I see this argument a lot and the point it misses is that the numbers are relatively low in your area exactly because of the precautions being taken. I have high blood pressure, so I take medication to manage it, which is why when I take my BP it’s usually not bad. Does this make me think I should stop taking the medication? Of course not.

Now don’t get me wrong, if you’re smart and reasonably careful the chances of getting infected are probably reasonably low, and if you are young and have no underlying medical conditions the chances of dying are even lower (especially if you are female). But don’t forget that you could be asymptomatic and unknowingly transmit the virus to other people who are at higher risk. That’s the whole point a lot of people just don’t seem to get. Or refuse to.[/QUOTE]

Yes.

 

Nope... not even close to going out. It’s all I can do to get up the courage to go the store to get my beer... but the caveat is that I live five minutes from Manhattan ground zero... so I’m sure that would affect anyone’s response. I can’t wait to be able to leave my house confidently... but it’s not even close yet, sadly.

 

I quoted your post for the great points you make, but also because of your idea of thinking of ithis pre-COVID , as a hypotheitcal.

For me right now it is hypothetical, since my health isn't sufficiently recovered that I am able to drink more than the one, very occasional beer (have had 3 beers in 8 1/2 months), and I have a cellar full of beer that, well... isn't improving lol. I voted wait. I don't think I would be going out with friends to pubs after they reopen when the virus has slowed considerably enough it is deemed safe.

Hopefully this stays hypothetical for me when I gradually ease back into enjoying our favorite beverage this fall, and there will be no second wave, and a successful vaccine is proven..

 

Of course we can agree to disagree its just saddens me we can't even agree that some protection is better than no protection

 

I am 100% with you on that stance. Some would try to make us believe that we can’t survive as a species unless we wear masks and disinfect everything. How the hell do people think we made it this far? SARS-CoV-2 is worse than the Bubonic Plague and the Black Death? That killed what, 50,000,000 people, but somehow we’re magically still here. SARS-CoV-2 has a long way to go to beat that metric. Masks don’t protect your eyes, your other exposed skin, prevent contact with your clothes that you eventually touch and smear on something or someone else, etc. It does make one look like a lemming, but I guess I’ll wear one if that’s the only way I can buy a gallon of milk or some beer. I’ll be at the bar, hugging everyone, sucking on the glass that was washed in cold, soapless water like it’s my mommy’s teet. Don’t look at the sun during an eclipse, don’t inject bleach, don’t eat fish-grade hydroxychloroquine, and don’t forget to vote. Peace, love, and #2A.

 

Plus it is supposed to be so we don't get others sick. This was common practice in Asia before all this BS

 

My contention is that masks don’t act as prevention for the myriad other transmission and reception courses, e.g. they do nothing to protect your eyes, other exposed skin (where intact is a potential contact transmitter or broken is an infection entrance opportunity), they don’t prevent contact to your clothes where again contact transmission is potentially an issue (anyone like to open/close doors with your sleeve? How infectious do you think that sleeve is by the end of the day?), etc. I don’t want to be sick or get someone sick, but SARS-CoV-2 is like any other antigen that needs non-histrionic hygiene activities. Wearing a mask, in my humble opinion, implies that people have some level of basic unwillingness or ignorance to not cough or sneeze without some level of blow-out mitigation for the 12 foot path that my 50 - 100 mph cough or sneeze would produce, and it does absolutely nothing for all those other vector opportunities. Plus we’ll still have to endure the occasional idiot who decides to lick food on a shelf, forcing a store to waste tens of thousands of dollars of food. I’m just chillin’ and drinkin’ with some BAs. No offense intended. We’re all getting through as best we can.

 

I voted wait, the amount of stupidity I've seen on display by my fellow Arkansans either leads me to believe they believe this fake, don't understand how this spreads without symptoms the first few days or they only give a shit about anyone but #1

 

I think it is courtesy we should grant to others around us. I work at a hospital and live in fear that I might pass this to others. I work in the ICU & ER as little as possible these days, but asymptomatic patients are traced after the fact. Because we still have privacy laws this is all dependent on detective work and honesty ( until bog brother decides otherwise ). Don't get me wrong we need to open up where we can do it smart. I believe part of that strategy is based on use of masks, but people do need to use them correctly. I'm not scared, but I bet I was my hands 50 times a day

 

Need to get a kegerator
Guess I will use the gov money and use alcohol as medicine just like I was told too

 

The anti-mask talk ignores the value of exponential mathematics.

The latest I've seen pegs COVID's R value, the number of people each person spreads it to on average, as between 2 and 2.5.

At 2.5, if you and 9 rounds of people down the line spread it to the average number of people, that's 9,500 infections.

If masks even cut that one tenth of one person to 2.4, that's 6,300 people infected 9 rounds of infection down the line.

Any extremely minor thing I can do to help can have a massive impact and likely save lives.

So that's why I wear a mask always when indoors and around others.

And to answer the original question, I voted wait because my state is opening prematurely. Local brewery no-contact pickup options are just fine right now.

 

Will likely wait until things are a lot more stable before going back to a bar, tasting room or restaurant. It's just not really high on my priority list when there's still a lot of bottles sitting in my cellar and all my local restaurants are offering takeout. There are plenty of ways to support local businesses and breweries without having to stand in a crowded room. Been doing curbside pickup at all my local breweries and was even able to get a proxy to support some out-of-state.

Exercising patience and being respectful of others goes a long way in making a stressful time less stressful. It's really not that big of a deal to wear a mask when going to pick up a few bottles/cans and to be respectful of others space. I already lost someone I care about to this and don't really feel like contributing to the chaos when it's so easily avoidable.

Realistically, its likely that this is going to be an issue for a while and although there are plenty that have their own opinion based on conspiracy theories, "things they heard" and other anecdotal evidence, there's still many of us out there that base our lifestyle choices and safety with scientists and specialists who have studied this for their entire careers.

Another things to keep in mind is that even though a brewery/bar/restaurant opens up again, it doesn't mean that their employees aren't scared. So believe what you want, but be respectful of each other and give ample space where needed because not everyone feels the same way. Don't be selfish. It's really not that difficult.

 

I hear you. I wear my mask when I must. I’m an RN, not in direct care any more, but I understand the complexity of this physical and mental mind f*ck. One of my staff was only 31 and died from covid19. He went in with severe abdominal distress, put on a vent, and died within a week. My team is freaked out. Two pregnant women, elderly staff, hell im in a risk group or two. The hand washing is, again IMHO, a better practice than donning a mask in situations where there assumedly is less likelihood that someone is coughing or sneezing without basic mitigation. If you’re on a hospital floor and people are having respiratory excretions by the bucketful, yes, masks make sense. If I’m walking in a grocery store or sitting at a bar, I reasonably expect that the person near me is not going to cough or sneeze on me without an attempt to divert it, for someone who doesn’t must surely be a dimwit. Not to belabor my opinion, I am now faced with deciding on one last beer, or going to bed...

 

I think quotes got mixed up here, so not sure you are even replying to me. But I’d only respond that these other viruses didn’t spread in the same way this one has. We don’t know how bad this one will (or can) get or how it might mutate. We have to act on the knowledge we do have, which is that this thing spread quickly and globally, and it seems to be hanging around.

I’m going to defer to the experts, scientists, and epidemiologists, since they are the specialists. If they say we are better off staying home and social distancing, I have no reason to doubt them.

 

I guess the thing that freaks me out; is back when the restrictions were starting a lot of people still looked at as grocery store runs as a great reason to take ALL the family out. The amount of people scared here about this now+ 5%, smart about this; 25% ( being generous ), the rest, doing there own thang

 

I won't be returning anytime soon. Mask, no-mask, social distancing policies, whatever. I have no problem going to the grocery or hardware store because it's usually a quick trip and I'm constantly moving with very limited exposure to other individuals. I may pass by 50 people, but only for a few seconds each. The chances of transmission, while not 0, are pretty low. Sitting on a barstool for a half-hour with conversations going on around me? No way. There's an interesting epidemiological study about transmission in a restaurant via the airflow of the AC system:


The yellow dot (A1) was the pre-symptomatic carrier. The red dots are people who were later diagnosed with COVID-19. Nobody from tables B or C interacted directly with A1 and contact tracing revealed that they were likely not exposed to anyone else with COVID-19. None of the restaurant staff developed COVID-19 nor did any other patrons throughout that day, suggesting that transmission wasn't through surface contact (e.g. door handles) or via the servers.

I guess if you're gonna go out, take note of where the vents are. Oh, it also helps if you can identify which of your fellow patrons are asymptomatic carriers.

LINK to the study: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0764_article

 

I am in absolutely no rush to go back. Sure, it would be great to see friends, but just because we haven't seen each other at the local in a few months doesn't mean we haven't been talking this whole time. Not to mention that I'm lucky enough to have a backyard and breweries are delivering to my door. I might go and pick up some to-go's, but I'm coming right back home.

This is going to get worse again I'm afraid, because too many people out there don't take it seriously. I've lost one person I know here in NYC, I don't need to lose anyone else.

 

You've summed up my feelings perfectly.

I voted the same as you because many Ohioans are just like the Arkansans you referred to.

 

I believe in slowing it down as much as possible by any means necessary. But I'm retired, I live alone, I'm a prepper, and my favorite hobbies, now that I can't drink beer, are done alone and away from others. I don't have a job to worry about. And I believe a vaccine will be discovered and put into use well before the end of next year So I believe we should slow the spread as much as possible by aggressive means.

But I will try to explain the other side to my way of thinking in a way that gives the basic, unvarnished version of it To save our economy we need to develop herd immunity quickly. There is no guarantee a vaccine will be discovered before the downfall of our nation due to folks not working. We need to get back to work quickly, and to do this we need to encourage behavior that doesn't slow down the virus, and be willing to man up and accept whatever outcomes there are as a result of that. You have relatives that are elderly or at risk? Sorry. I didn't make them old. I didn't make them sick. My job didn't either. Society doesn't have to suffer because of their circumstances. You worry hospital systems will be overwhelmed? If the hospital system(s) can't handle the amount of sick people it needs to handle, we can fix that down the road. Right now we need to get back to work, and slowing down this disease is the opposite of what we need to be doing, regardless of how many die. Plenty of land to bury them in, plenty of workers ready to do the job.

 

I will return.

Since I’m not over 60 and have no underlying health issues, there is no risk.

This whole issue is so overblown, it’s self destruction of our nation.

 

I will return when science says it’s okay too.

 

Have a booking on Sunday afternoon. Just winding back the restrictions in Australia - maximum 10 patrons per venue (as of this Friday night) and you can book a 2 hour spot at my favorite craft beer venue. Giddy up!

 

I’ll be there with bells on.

 

Preach!

 

Wait, I’m 64, but it’s not only you it’s your family your putting at risk as well. Always better to be prudent not paranoid.

 

Legit curious where you're getting the latest R values. I'm with you on it's significance but this model is showing only 4 states slightly over 1, every other below 1. Obviously modeling methodologies can vary, which is why I'm asking. If there are other known R models available, I'd be curious to look at them.

https://rt.live/

 

Sobering fact of the day- the fastest discovery for an immunization in history was for the Mumps. That took 4 years.

 

We're already going. We just stay in our own small group and away from others.

 

Thanks! I hadn't seen this one yet. Researchers also found COVID-19 throughout the air circulation system of the Diamond Princess. It is probably a safe assumption that any enclosed area with an AC system can circulate the virus throughout the establishment. Of course more research is need but from what we have seen so far that appears to be the case.

 

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-drug-remdesivir-supply-chain

 

I will, but I also live in a part of the country that hasn't been hit very hard by the Coronavirus. If I lived in NYC, this would be a very different story.

 

I will return, with caution.

This whole Covid mess has really done a number on the world. What has really stood out to me is how much people didn’t/don’t think about their fellow citizens. The very basic acts of hand washing, covering coughs/sneezes, and being considerate of others would reduce infections of any kind, incredibly. Why did it take a pandemic to force people to be considerate of others and be diligent in cleaning and disinfecting?

In my opinion, bars and restaurants have a tough road ahead of them. Establishments must make the health safety changes that will make all people feel warm and fuzzy before they take that first sip or bite of food.

 

That would include other dimwit things, like breathing, and talking, which also expels moisture which can contain the virus. That's why you can 'see' your breath on a cold day. A layer or two of cloth limits that spread (note, I didn't say blocks) which protects everyone else.