Your Most Controversial Review

Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by TastyAdventure, Jan 26, 2013.

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  1. IamMe90

    IamMe90 Initiate (0) Sep 4, 2012 Wisconsin

    Taste is only objective insofar as two subjects have the exact same perceptive mechanisms and the same conceptual knowledge to process perceived taste in the same way. Meeting either of these criteria is incredibly unlikely. The qualitative phenomenon of taste is immediate and subjective - there is no single objective flavor one should perceive from one beverage. That's not how it works.
  2. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,455) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    I think he is trying to say something extremely simple, and you may be overthinking this. Perhaps it will be easier to understand using a different sense. If you mix red and yellow you get orange of some kind. You don't get green of some kind. Someone who says that you get green of some kind is wrong, it isn't something open to opinion. Perception of how you like the color, or taste, doesn't change what the color, or taste, is.
    BobZ, TheSaboteur and RobertColianni like this.
  3. MusicaleMike

    MusicaleMike Initiate (0) Mar 17, 2008 Pennsylvania

    The largest deviation from any of my reviews is +73.8% for Bud Light. I gave it a 3.25, which is an honest and fair score based on the light beer style. I don't really even think that is a high score, and not really controversial at all. What is pretty controversial is that I rated Bud Light higher than Sculpin, which I found to not be one of the better IPAs out there.
    RobertColianni, MAbeerNE1 and mwar like this.
  4. fredmugs

    fredmugs Poo-Bah (1,547) Aug 11, 2012 Indiana
    Beer Trader

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  5. Rutager

    Rutager Poo-Bah (2,188) Oct 18, 2010 British Columbia (Canada)
    Beer Trader

    The reviews of any single beer are usually all over the place. It doesn't mean some people are right and wrong, it's just what their getting.

    There are many factors that can cause actual variance in the taste of a beer (age, storage, batch variance, etc) as well as personal perception differences. Anyone that claims they have THE correct perception must be pretty full of themselves.
    lonewolfcry, tectactoe and mwar like this.
  6. callmeishmALE

    callmeishmALE Disciple (327) Dec 30, 2010 Colorado

    I personally don't review much on here, so, sorry I can't contribute to the original topic. Here is an article on the biology and psychology of taste...
    Yes, it has scientific references. Pretty good read if anyone is interested. Or keep throwing generalities and cliches around. It's whatever. Cheers!
    jgluck, WebGuyMike and Rutager like this.
  7. thenamestsam

    thenamestsam Initiate (121) Sep 13, 2012 New York

    Right. If you tell me you don't like FBS, well, that's subjective. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it. If you tell me it's a citrusy beer, youre just wrong.
    seakayak likes this.
  8. nategibbon

    nategibbon Initiate (117) Sep 6, 2008 Illinois

    I don't think seeing a single, isolated color is analogous to being able to definitively assert that there is one very specific flavor in a beer containing hundreds of synergistic chemical compounds produced by a diverse array of raw materials and processes.
    People that think they can are probably demonstrating the Dunning-Kruger effect:
    zach60614 and Rutager like this.
  9. Rutager

    Rutager Poo-Bah (2,188) Oct 18, 2010 British Columbia (Canada)
    Beer Trader

    I see what you're saying, but I think a more relevant example would be to show a color right between blue and green and then ask people if that color is closer to blue or green. I would think that's where personal perception would cause variance just like the flavors in beer.
    IamMe90 and callmeishmALE like this.
  10. DelMontiac

    DelMontiac Defender (699) Oct 22, 2010 Oklahoma

    My largest deviations...
    Consecration: 2.55 -42.8%
    Wacko: 3.78 +32.2%
  11. TheBeerAlmanac

    TheBeerAlmanac Savant (967) Mar 3, 2011 Kentucky
    Beer Trader

    Seriously, how is this thread still open.
  12. DaKur

    DaKur Initiate (0) Nov 15, 2012 Rhode Island

    I have tried Troegs Troegenator a couple times and just think its gross. Bad batch?
  13. bylerteck

    bylerteck Poo-Bah (2,857) May 17, 2009 Ontario (Canada)
    Beer Trader

  14. Rollzroyce21

    Rollzroyce21 Meyvn (1,039) Oct 24, 2009 California
    Beer Trader

    Let's say you and I are blind-folded. Someone hands each of us a cup of beverage. We aren't aware of what's inside the cup. We sip. Then we're asked what we just tasted. We both say coffee. We're told we're correct. It's coffee.

    Now let's say I, for whatever reason, don't say it's coffee, but milk. By your explanation above, you're saying we're both correct?

    The OP tasted something more coffee forward with no presence of chocolate. Thus, he didn't like it. Another BA mentions that FBS should've had much more chocolate presence than what the OP reported. Personal preference aside, how is any of this subjective?
  15. JamesShoemaker

    JamesShoemaker Initiate (0) Sep 21, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I like it too.
    THANAT0PSIS and Affini7y like this.
  16. JamesShoemaker

    JamesShoemaker Initiate (0) Sep 21, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Insanity. So gross to me.

    2.63/5 rDev -37.2%
    look: 2.5 | smell: 3 | taste: 2 | feel: 4 | overall: 3
  17. TheSixthRing

    TheSixthRing Poo-Bah (2,780) Sep 24, 2008 California

    Hipsters gonna hip
  18. WebGuyMike

    WebGuyMike Initiate (0) Dec 5, 2012 Florida

    Trappistes Rochefort 10
    RDev: -61.2%

    Drain pour
  19. gcamparone

    gcamparone Poo-Bah (1,553) Dec 6, 2011 Rhode Island
    Beer Trader

    FBS or hopslam. Underwhelmed me
  20. mwar

    mwar Initiate (0) Jun 15, 2012 Kentucky

    Though I have yet to "review" a beer, I track my had's. Inevitably when I enter a domestic lager from a major brewery, my rating is always much higher than most all others on the site. I enjoy them, which makes me the rare excetion.

    And don't hate me for this, but I can not stand Chimay Red.
  21. dhannes

    dhannes Zealot (505) Feb 14, 2010 Wisconsin

    I just got a 4-pack and had one...honestly, it was more bitter than sweet...will try it again before I write my thoughts, but, so far, I hear where you are coming from.
    TastyAdventure likes this.
  22. dhannes

    dhannes Zealot (505) Feb 14, 2010 Wisconsin

    Mine, at least for most people in Wisconsin, has got to be New Glarus Spotted Cow. It is one of the top three selling beers in Wisconsin, and I cannot understand why...if I want a cream ale, Lake Louie's is much, much better (IHMO).
    lonewolfcry likes this.
  23. Wolfpack2005

    Wolfpack2005 Initiate (0) Oct 15, 2010 North Carolina

    Expedition Stout. Very disappointing.

    2.88/5 rDev -31.4%
    look: 3 | smell: 3 | taste: 2.5 | feel: 4 | overall: 3
    ThisWangsChung likes this.
  24. chanokokoro

    chanokokoro Champion (835) Jan 31, 2012 Illinois

    My biggest negative deviation (-41.6%) is for Founders Frangelic Mountain Brown, a disgusting mess. I have a few more that have a deviation of at least -20% including Sierra Nevada Narwhal, Pipeworks Galaxy Unicorn, Hoppin Frog/De Molen Supercharged Saison IPA, Bells Two-Hearted, and Avery The Reverend. My biggest positive deviations are for New Glarus Totally Naked (+21.2%), Firestone Walker Double Barrel Ale (DBA) (+18.7%), and Orval (+16.2%).
  25. RobertColianni

    RobertColianni Zealot (528) Nov 4, 2008 Pennsylvania

    Now take away the two outside colors to show the true color in the middle and you arrive at my point. It doesn't matter how much decoration or deception surrounds the color, there is still a right and wrong answer that is not able to be altered with opinion. This is why taste is not subjective at all.
  26. IamMe90

    IamMe90 Initiate (0) Sep 4, 2012 Wisconsin

    I'm saying we're both correct in that: it tasted like coffee for me and it tasted like milk for you. Whether or not it IS coffee or milk has no bearing on whether or not someone is "correct" that it tastes like coffee or milk to that person. Taste, or any sensory phenomenon, doesn't have its locus within objects, but rather the interaction of certain physical attributes with perceptual mechanisms. Who knows why it tastes like milk to you, there could be a huge host of confounding circumstances that could lead to such a strange judgment, but I can't tell you it doesn't taste like milk to you. Either your perceptual organs or your cognitive faculties are just wired in a way that make you have a distinctly different qualitative aspect to the same percept than me. It happens all the time.
    jedwards likes this.
  27. IamMe90

    IamMe90 Initiate (0) Sep 4, 2012 Wisconsin

    You're mixing up "taste" and the physical makeup of things that we taste. You are correct in your example that there is only one color insofar as there is one range of light waves in a certain color, but the way those light waves are perceived can theoretically vary between subjects ( Similarly the compounds that produce the sensations of taste are the same in one beer, but the way those are perceived can and do vary based on a wide range of factors, such as the amount of taste buds people have , conceptual knowledge (people with more advanced palates detect different flavors, as most of you well know), etc.

    TLDR: Everyone is mixing up "taste" with the things that produce taste.
    Rutager likes this.
  28. JuicesFlowing

    JuicesFlowing Poo-Bah (2,146) Jul 5, 2009 Kansas

    Schlafly Tasmanian IPA. -22.7 rDev. It's the only beer I ever drank that has notes of cat litter in it.
    mtbdonn likes this.
  29. tectactoe

    tectactoe Initiate (0) Mar 20, 2012 Michigan

    Did you really feel the need to be such an asshole?

    My most controversial is probably Devil Dancer. Perhaps the bottle was bad. Maybe it's just not for me. I could barely finish it, though. But as Rutager and BigCheese said, taste is subjective and luckily we're allowed to buy whatever the hell beer we want.
    ExaltedNecrosis, Pando and CStrife187 like this.
  30. DaveAnderson

    DaveAnderson Devotee (479) Jan 11, 2011 Minnesota

    That's easy enough for you to look up.

    If you read my review for Hopslam, for example, you will see that I really liked 2011, but didn't review Hopslam until 2012, a year I disliked it. I've been underwhelmed by BCBS every year since 2007. And I try Pumking very year, but I am never able to tolerate enough of it to post a review. Last year's smelled like creamed corn to me.

    So, yeah -- I dislike a couple of popular beers. But there isn't a style I dislike, only specific beers (I thought I disliked pilsners, but Schell's Fresh Hop Citra Pils set me straight).
  31. jaIsPoAn

    jaIsPoAn Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2012 New York

    Did anyone get reported yet? Wha
  32. turfy

    turfy Aspirant (230) Mar 17, 2010 Texas
    Beer Trader

    Shiner Ruby Redbird. I gave it a 1.83, which when looking back on it, seems high. Yet I was pilloried by some in the "I drink shitty beer and am proud of it" camp.
  33. Immortale25

    Immortale25 Poo-Bah (3,061) May 13, 2011 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    My hometown brewery and makers of one of my top 3 beers of all time (see username), but I have always not been able to stand this beer:
    Indian Brown Ale - Dogfish Head Craft Brewery

    2.13/5 rDev -48.2%
    look: 2.5 | smell: 2.5 | taste: 2 | feel: 2 | overall: 2
  34. Immortale25

    Immortale25 Poo-Bah (3,061) May 13, 2011 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    Also, I gave Orkney Skull Splitter a bad review (though it may have been a bad bottle) and Drie Fonteinen Oude Gueuze (but I'm beginning to think I just don't like gueuzes).
  35. IamMe90

    IamMe90 Initiate (0) Sep 4, 2012 Wisconsin

    Indian Brown is just sublime man :grimacing:
    Lordkrystic and jaIsPoAn like this.
  36. jtmartino

    jtmartino Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2010 California
    Beer Trader

    While this is fine and dandy, people can indeed have inferior or simply inaccurate taste and flavor perception. This is why there is a sensory perception requirement for things like the BJCP, advanced cicerone certification and sommelier certification.

    Just because you don't have the ability to pick up on certain flavors it doesn't mean they don't exist within the beer (and vice versa - people may perceive flavor inaccurately if they are lacking a developed palate or experience.) Some people just don't have the physiological ability or experience to be able to perceive flavor well. It's as simple as that.

    My biggest deviation is from these two. The Hiver had something wrong with it (clearly) that made it taste like cigar ashes. The 1 Door is just absolutely terrible.

    R 12-15-2012 Fantôme Saison D'Erezée - Hiver
    Brasserie Fantôme
    Saison / Farmhouse Ale 8.00 1.3 -67.9%
    R 01-14-2013 1 Door Flemish Style Sour Ale
    Hermitage Brewing
    Flanders Oud Bruin 7.00 1.15

    RobertColianni likes this.
  37. Ri0

    Ri0 Poo-Bah (2,591) Jul 1, 2012 Wisconsin
    Beer Trader

  38. Immortale25

    Immortale25 Poo-Bah (3,061) May 13, 2011 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    It's funny, the first time I had it, I loved it and found it to be balanced and bursting with tropical fruit flavors. A week or so later, I had it from the same bar from the same keg and was surprised by how much more bitter and less sweet and fruity it was from how I remembered it. There are so many factors that contribute to how we taste beers (the last beer tasted, the last thing eaten, how drunk one may be, bitterness threshold, etc.) that determine our final opinion of what we're drinking at the time. Fascinating.
    Rutager likes this.
  39. Jspriest

    Jspriest Disciple (380) Feb 9, 2011 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Taste is subjective. ABVs and IBUs are objective, even when they're false. That a beer contains chocolate malt, or adjuncts, or coffee, or whatever, is objective. The age of a beer is objective. What any one person, as a subject, tastes, in a beer, is and will always be inherently subjective. There is no such thing as "taste characteristics."

    Recommended reading:
    TMoney2591 and lonewolfcry like this.
  40. buffs9

    buffs9 Aspirant (291) Apr 28, 2008 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    agreed, Syx sucked.
    Hanzo likes this.
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