Dry hop question

Just as a note: You mean 1.050 & 1.010. The number is comparing the density of the liquid you have to pure water (1.000 g / mL)

That and a Miller Lite glass? For shame

 

Shame accepted on the miller lite glass ... Although its a Texans glass to me. Thanks for the corrections my man... I will move the decibel to the left one spot!

 

ALWAYS get your primary off the sediment after a week...

Yes, those are yesterdays' instructions and are needed if someone is still doing fermentation w/yesterday's methods. Such as pitching dry yeast, old yeast, etc .There is a difference between "need to" and "can".

Session beers can be done in a week and big beers can be taken out of the primary in two. It is a luxury to have a keg where you do can additional conditioning, if you bottle then it's a different case.


As far as telling if the beer has attenuated fully, I've often done a fast ferment test - or a variant there of. After pitching my starter I add about a pint of wort to the flask (where there are a lot of cells left). Probably not necessary but I put then put the flask on a stir-plate. It's done in about 24 hours.

 

See what im saying ? 10000 different ideas about primary fermentation .. Guess Ill just stick to what has worked so far !

 

Interesting...what is the connection between dry yeast and using a secondary?

A pint of wort put into a flask "where there are a lot of cells left" works out to what pitching rate?

There's the "need to" vs. "can". Milds "can" be done (all available sugar fermented) in 2-3 days, but IMO you "need to" wait a little longer for yeast to further cleanup the beer. And it "can" happen with the yeast that carries over into secondary, but there doesn't "need to" be an extra step.

Again, I am completely indifferent to how people brew. And I also agree that some of the discussions are about topics such as this where it is very close to a "distinction without a difference", but I think there is a difference. If you can get the same or better results, eliminate a step of work, and eliminate an opportunity for a couple of things to go wrong, I say take advantage of that.

 

1) When you pitch yeast dry it's estimated that half the cells die. Some people feel that there will be enough cells left, which means that at pitching you have equal number of dead cells and live cells. That's a lot of dead cells. The though is that you want to get the beer away from those dead cells as soon as you can.

2) I don't know what the pitching rate is, but it's very high. Typically I have a lot of cells sticking to the glass. But for this test you aren't making beer, your trying to ferment all available sugars without the restrictions of a flavor profile.

3) I really believe that beer -with proper fermentation- can be taken off the yeast cake in the time tables that I posted. Is it ready to be bottled? No, but that's not my point. If you start with health yeast then you can leave the beer in the primary for an extended time with no worries. It's just that I'd rather have a beer in a week or two that needs minor or no conditioning vs. something that needs a lot of cleaning up by the yeast.

 

Compared to the very large amount of cells that will be made (some of which will die) in the wort/beer, the half pack of dead cells isn't really that much. Think of the yeast cake at end of fermentation vs. the small handful of cells in the pack. I do think there are some good reasons to rehydrate, but I wouldn't consider autolysis of the instantly killed cells to be a major one.

 

That could be.

But I wasn't making that statement as one of fact but more as to why it had been or might of been a thought to why that it be necessary to transfer off of the yeast cake soon. I'm sure that most people know that this is one of JZ's thoughts to why the old school though might of been relevant. And I made the whole post just to bring up the larger discussion of the benefits of a proper fermentation.

 

Changed my mind .. Going 10 days primary and 7 days dry hop with two weeks bottle condition... Cant wait!

Also going to trying a clarification with Biofine!

 

I'd recommend letting the yeast tell you when it's time to rack to secondary. Whether you want to rack after attenuation is complete or when attenuation is almost complete, the yeast are unlikely to follow your schedule.

 

Care to expand on that ?

 

Sure. If you want to rack when the yeast have finished attenuation, make sure that they have, by measuring with a hydrometer, before you rack. If you want to rack when they have almost finsihed attenuation (say with about .003 to go), measure with a hydrometer and rack when the gravity is .003 higher than your anticipated FG.

 

Newbie question - what differences are there between racking after or just prior to attentuation being finished?

 

Racking just prior to attenuation being finished has an advantage that CO2 is still being produced, which may prevent/slow oxidation. A disadvantage is that there will be more yeast in suspension, which can remove some of the dry hops' oils from the beer when they eventually flocculate.

 

Well said thank you

 

Update .. I have bottled the citra dry hopped pale ale and man let me tell you that beer turned out super smooth with a really nice hop note. I cant wait to try it when its carbonated and cold.. So i let it go 8 days primary fermenter and 7 days secondary with the dry hop ( 1 oz citra ). Pictures ...
On the way to bottling bucket:

 

Those people are right

Whose thought is that?

You're describing this like it will have a discernable effect on the finished product. It doesn't. It should also be noted that, while you may be pitching a half packet of dead cells, you end up with about a gazillion times that number of healthy cells by the time fermentation is complete.

Edit: It looks like VikeMan already covered that point.

 

Please scroll up and see the context of my post.But I'll recap:



<<scurvy311 said:

Interesting...what is the connection between dry yeast and using a secondary?

<yinzer said:

1) When you pitch yeast dry it's estimated that half the cells die. Some people feel that there will be enough cells left, which means that at pitching you have equal number of dead cells and live cells. That's a lot of dead cells. The thought is that you want to get the beer away from those dead cells as soon as you can.

My response was a suggestion as to why at one time it was suggested that you need to secondary beer. Dead yeast cells are bad for beer to be in contact with. When pitching dry yeast you in essence are pitching dead cells.

Whose thoughts are those? It was JZ's and seem to make sense.

But if you want to bring up a new subject: pitching dry yeast can have have a discernible effect on the finished product. Improperly hydrated yeast will have weak cell walls. It will be harder for the yeast to regulate what passes through the cell walls.

And yes I know that some manufactures say that you can pitch dry yeast.

please see p146 of the Yeast book.

 

"Dead yeast cells are bad for beer to be in contact with."

I was under the impression that some yeast nutrients contain dead yeast cells.

 

Good point.

please see p281 of the Yeast book.

I might be making an assumption but under autolysis factor "dehydration of yeast" is listed as a "potential cause". Frankly if you look on the surrounding pages "dehydration of yeast" is listed as a negative factor for about everything. Again I might be taking a leap of faith equating "dehydration of yeast" with pitching dry yeast, but it seems logical.