Renaissance or rebellion? The new wave of German brewing

Discussion in 'Germany' started by herrburgess, Mar 12, 2013.

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  1. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany
    In Memoriam

    We've had all this since the 60s, it just wasn't "formalized" but mixed at the counter.

    You miss the point, we don't need any "new beer", what the Hell for ?

    "Markentreue" is the wet dream of every company. I admit most Germans could be more adventurous but that's not really in our DNA anymore. All the adventurous ones have emigrated to The Americas or Russia (Well, most of those have come back by now...) over the past 2 Centuries.

    The major challenge for any brewery in Germany is to exist past the first 3 month in a completely oversaturated market. You can't buy Schlenkerla in Regensburg and we're an hour from Bamberg. Why ? Because nobody would buy it. So Schlenkerla won't bother. They'd just get it sent back by the wholesaler after it expired and have to write it off.
     
  2. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    You know, I have to agree with you on most if not all points here. The LARGE majority of the talk I have heard about the demise of German brewing has been through the press (and/or on here). When I went back to Bamberg and Bavaria this past summer, I saw the complete opposite: breweries that are filled to capacity and more; new beers from almost every place I visited; and a general "renaissance" and increased interest in tradition. Even -- and perhaps especially -- among younger people.

    I guess all the talk has me worried that Franconian/Bavarian brewing is moths away from decimation -- despite everything I witnessed first-hand. But what I witnessed made me think that a rebirth might be in the works...at least in tradition-rich (and traditionally stubborn!) Franconia.

    Perhaps I need to stick to primary sources more :wink:
     
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  3. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    ...all that said, I'm definitely interested in hearing Boddhitree's thoughts on the general feeling/sense coming out of Braukunst. I suspect things like this event are there to stay and will certainly be playing a role in the "industry" as it searches for direction.
     
  4. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    News from Gaffel on this subject

    Gaffels "Sonnen-Hopfen" als Jahrgangsbier enthält einen zugegebenen Citra-Aromahopfen "aus dem Yakima Valley im Nordwesten der Vereinigten Staaten"

    Gaffels new beer "Sun-Hop" beer contains added Citra aroma hops "from the Yakima Valley in the northwest of the United States"

    I guess it remains to be seen what direction this will all take. The only side of the developments which gives me Bauchschmerzen is the "me-too" philosophy in Germany. Once one guy hits a home run, everybody else starts swinging for the fence.

    Also, please do not compare the rest of the country to the Shangri-La of Franken. The US population has finally embraced something better than AALs and craft beer now has a 6% volume and 10% dollar share of the market. We are beyond high school homebrew experiments and the competition is getting ferocious.
     
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  5. jonb5

    jonb5 Pooh-Bah (1,745) May 11, 2010 England
    Pooh-Bah

    You miss the point, we don't need any "new beer", what the Hell for ?

    I've heard many people say that beer is too "bitter" to drink in any great quantity. They either drink Alster/Radler/Cola-Wiezen or switch to Bacardi-Cola/Vodka-Red Bull after a beer or two. There is room for a beer which could alter the perception of what beer is and make people at least consider drinking more of it. At the moment the masses can't see past Pils and Hefeweizen when they think of beer.
     
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  6. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Another side note, just FYI: selling beer in California gives me a different and maybe insightful look at the trends which will hit the rest of the country down the road. My observation is that many retailers are scaling back imports, for the most part German & English selection, in favor of US craft beer. They continue to carry Belgians, adding more sours, but the tendency is falling. As a lover of German styles, I am sad to see this happen, but it does not surprise me.
     
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  7. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    This.

    My guess is it's going to be the citrus/grapefruit hops profiles that Germans latch onto...and run into the ground :wink:. To be fair, I think that the bold, fruity flavors of the newly cultivated hop varieties drive a HUGE section of the U.S. craft market as well (just look at the love for Jack's Abby's lagers...it's the HOPS, stupid!), and are the closest thing we've seen in the past decade to a true "innovation" in brewing.
     
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  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Firstly, I appreciate all of the posts you made in this thread; they are thoughtful.

    In this post you made mention of a number of issues but the one I find the most disturbing is: “homogenization (or dumbing-down) of the pilsner style”. If I want to drink an authentic German Pilsner (where authentic is defined by a Pilsner like they brewed in Germany circa 1970s – 1980s) I have to drink US brewed German style Pilsners.

    I wonder if any of the German breweries have considered making 'good' beers like they did just 30-40 years ago?

    Cheers!
     
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  9. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    All the usual suspects have contributed with all their well worn talking points. My contribution.
    This is the current state of beer in Germany in general:
    1. German beer in general is boring (irregardless of quality) due to a lack of innovation with almost nothing new to entice the consumer away from other products other than semi-beer products.
    2. The general industry is losing customers to wine and the younger generation, also losing revenue due to shifts in consumer's attitude to beer - lower blood alcohol levels when driving is important, but more important is a general higher health consciousness which beer doesn't fit into.
    3. Quality has been reduced considerably among mass produced beers.
    4. The few quality beers as stuck in god-forsaken rural areas or tiny cities with no access to bigger markets, whether that's by choice or not, that's a different topic.
    5. Marketing of beer is tired and unoriginal, based mostly on "tradition" that appeals to an older market slice. (Beck's interesting label designs are a step in the right direction. See below. Though it masks bad beer, it's an example of creative thinking.)
    [​IMG]
    These are trends, mind you, and there are exceptions, but that's the landscape.

    Possible solutions:
    For conglomerates, not much, except to market based on quality rather than price and tradition, but that's like asking BMC to do the same. This is unrealistic.

    The small brewers must lead the way, either micro or smaller traditional brewers:
    1. Focus on quality because they can't compete on price.
    2. Market their product better, which means creative thinking, something German brewers aren't noted for.
    3. Finding innovative distribution channels, especially online.
    4. When it comes to product, they can A) focus on creating a really great product from their current line up or B) create new ones, either innovating off of what they already make or introduce products completely unknown in their market.
    To do this requires both a renaissance and a revolution.
     
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  10. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Is this more or less what you saw happening at Braukunst? Did you get to talk to brewers about any of this? If so, what is the rebellion against? Just the Fernsehbiere and conglomerates, or are all "traditional" styles being seen as boring and in need of a new direction? If not, where is the renaissance taking place, and what are people awakening to?
     
  11. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Maven (1,363) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Sorry to do this*, but circling back I think that Paulaner place could really be interesting. Does "Brauhaus" mean they'll be brewing on location, or is just a marketing label? Hopefully they will brew on location and hopefully they will use the wooden barrel gravity dispense method. While they'll likely not get the hophead market, I think if they do these things they have a chance of getting a lot of BMC drinkers who stop in to turn to German beer as a future option.

    * = once my boy woke up from his nap my BA time was over until he fell asleep for the night.
     
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  12. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    It's an interesting and logical move - make their original recipe of just a hoppier version of their current pilsner, which is where I believe Warsteiner is going with their Warsteiner Herb (has anyone tried this?).
     
  13. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Most Ba's will say that is out of style. :wink:
     
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  14. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Most BAs show very little love for a well brewed pilsner anyway. Sad but true.
     
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  15. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany
    In Memoriam

    We are such predictable folk, aren't we ? :slight_smile:

    To item 1: Well, German beer is German. We thrive in technical innovations, marketing has never been our strong point.
    To item 2: Fernsehbier is loosing customers. Smaller regional breweries have strong support in the population and especially with the kids. I invite you to come to any brewery fest around here and you can see for yourself.
    To item 3: Agreed. Which is why mass produced beers should be avoided.
    To item 4: It's your own fault for moving to a beerless hellhole like Frankfurt, isn't it ? :stuck_out_tongue:
    To item 5: I don't think better marketing would do much good in terms of selling more good beer. Good breweries are already selling everything they produce and they can't up the production because they don't have the capacity and/or access to more ingredients to toss in their mash.

    Item 1: They already do that, that's how they survived so far.
    Item 2: I sort of already conceded that part but, why would a brewer who already works full time and sells all he makes and has a very nice living from it bother to get himself in a risky financial situation ? Just to please a fickle population that will leave him and his family and his debts like a piece of roadkill on the sidewalk the second the winds turn ? "Der Spatz in der Hand ist besser als die Taube auf dem Dach" goes a German saying that roughly translates to the small bird already in your hand is much better than the bigger one you can see up on the roof but have yet to catch. Germans firmly believe that when we overeach ourselves life punishes us and more often than not that punishment is administered by your own peers walking away from you because they think you lost touch with the ground. I know you are aware of that because of your work and it irritates you to no end but this is Germany and when dealing with Germans you have to apply a solution that works with the German mindset. You cannot convince anyone of doing something that's simply not in his repertoire, no matter how much it may irritate you. I know that for a fact because of my work.
    Item 3: Since most small brewers already sell everything they make the urge to look for new distribution channels is not very urgent for them. They might accomodate you if you approach them if it's not too much trouble for them but they won't bend over backwards for anyone. Why would they ?
    Item 4: No need.
     
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  16. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany
    In Memoriam

    Industrial breweries always whine. They don't like to pay taxes (who does...) and they don't want to pay their share holders so they use their willing boot lickers in the press to spread all this nonsense about "OMG German brewing is dying" and people overseas start believing that drivel. Winston Churchill once said that the only statistics he would believe are the ones he rigged himself. In Germany we say "Papier is geduldig" (= Paper is patient). Reality looks rather different however.
     
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  17. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany
    In Memoriam

    I don't. BUT, those parts of Germany that have a beer tradition embraces that tradition. The problem with perception is that people like boddhitree think they move to "Germany the beer Mecca" and end up in a place that doesn't have a beer tradition and then they think it's all a hoax. Even vast parts of Franconia have a wine tradition (it's even semi-officially called "Weinfranken") where you won't find a decent beer. People don't drink it and thus, nobody produces it. Germany is far from monolithic, look at a historical map, all those old states from 200 or 300 years ago still live in our heads and the traditions continue.
     
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  18. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany
    In Memoriam

    You need to come visit Eastern Bavaria.
     
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  19. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Maven (1,363) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    I saw it recently and thought about getting it but decided against it. Maybe I'll give it a shot, but normally if I'm in the mood for a pils I'll get Rothaus or Alpirsbacher. If I see it again I'll try it and report back.

    Otherwise, I agree with everything Stahlsturm said.
     
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