Why does Founders never have any Class 3 on tap?

That's a GREAT question.

My guess is that we're going to hear a lot about how "they're focused on production right now" and how "those beers take a lot of time to make" but, in my ever so humble opinion, this is another example of how Founders, in the pursuit of some sort of distribution manifest destiny, or, at the very least, the almighty dollar, has stopped being the innovative and exciting GRAND RAPIDS brewery they once were and has become just another good REGIONAL brewery.

I remember how KBS used to last for months on tap after the release. CBS would be on tap for a month when it went up. Black Biscuit was on for weeks. But now Founders won't even put KBS on tap for all the days they're allowing for KBS pickups in the gift shop for the lucky ticket winners/buyers. I bet it won't last a week in the pub this time, maybe only a few days.

I believe distributing these beers at the expense of having a solid & consistent on premise presence for Class 3 is a huge mistake. I'll go one step further - I personally wish KBS didn't come to Ohio. I wish they didn't bottle the stuff at all. It's a great beer but leads to so many issues for distributors, retailers and consumers that it's poison in the marketplace.

Instead of going through all the trouble, Founders could be the Mecca it once was...they could follow Russian River's example w/ PTY, and make these beers DONGs and have a full taproom every morning, afternoon and evening for a month. They could have cool draft KBS breakfasts in all their markets too, but I'd even say they should keep it all on tap at the homebase and that's it - you want KBS, CBS, etc, come to Grand Rapids - it'll be on every day for a month out of the year. That would bring people to Grand Rapids in droves and they'd sell more on premise, more sandwiches, merch, etc.

Ultimately it's their call, but I wish more breweries realized that, aside from good intentions, beers like KBS cause many, many more problems than they're worth in the distribution chain.

 

Oh look, another thread damning Founders for how popular they are.

I'm not sure about Russian River's methods of releasing PtY, but if you think a brewery can pump out barrel aged beers (which most of Founders' Class 3 brews are, like Backwoods, Bolt Cutter, KBS, CBS, etc.) at the same rate as a DIPA, then you have no concept for how beer is made, much less how long the barrel aging process takes. Not to mention, there'd be no way in hell they could make enough KBS or CBS to last on tap for a month even if they didn't distribute any of it, not with the reputation the beers and the brewery has now. All the Class 3's are already DONG, so that wouldn't help either.

No one wishes that they could brew KBS and Class 3's out their noses more than me, but it's just not possible. It's not Founders being lazy or trying to spin it in some way, it's just literally not possible.

 

^ What that dude just said

 

The distributors could just not carry KBS, right? Is there some rule that they have to take all that Founders wants to give them? Somehow I find it hard to believe that distributors have so many issues with it. If distributors haven't figured out how to go about dealing with limited release beers, that the distributors' fault, not the companies that make the beer.

As far as putting limited stuff on tap more in order to drive up traffic at the brewpub--I bet when you go to Founders this weekend it'll be full. I've driven up on random Tuesdays before and every table has been full at 11am. They get plenty of traffic in the pub now.

 

Exactly, they don't have any trouble filling the place.

 

I was there on a random Wednesday evening in September and the place was absolutely packed. I don't think Founders will have many issues with getting people to come to their place.

 

They did just have Backwoods on draft for a month or so. It also doesn't hurt that in my opinion their class 1 and 2 beers have been stepped up recently with more pub only stuff than I remember in the past.

 

I pour as a volunteer at a local brewery. What really surprised when I started me was the number of pints and growlers fills I poured of the every day beers (that is, not whatever special ones we happen to have on tap). I think as beer geeks, especially floating around in our own little circles, we don't always realize that the majority of people who visit a brewery on any given day aren't necessarily interested in whatever barrel aged, rare-ish, whale-ish beers that happen to be on. They just like good beer. In fact, in my personal experience, I've watched a significant number of people leave samples of (delicious) rye barrel and bourbon barrel aged beers unfinished in the tasting room.

It might be a bummer that they don't have anything crazy and barrel aged on, but overall I don't think it's going to make a difference to the majority of people who visit a brewery, IMO.

 

OP - I think this question should be filed under the “Sense of Entitlement” folder. The way I see it, if you are pissed that Founders (or any other brewery for that matter) doesn't have its flagship/BA brews on draft when you just so happen to be ready to visit the brewpub, then you sir, are drinking craft beer for all the wrong reasons. AB-InBev is brewing some awesome beers for you as we speak!

Look at it this way: if you had tens, even hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in your own brewery, and night-after-night the place is packed with not only locals, but visitors from all over the world, what incentive do you have to cut the production and distribution of the beers that are selling in your brewpub and distribution chain simply to make more expensive flagship/BA beers? None. Zero. Natta. Sure, it would be amazing if Founders could keep a “Class 3” BA beer on draft all year, but it’s not logistically possible, and quite frankly, it’s financially irresponsible.

So, to you my friend, I say raise that thick-walled pint glass of Bud Light Platinum, and accept the hardy cheers from all of your fellow BAer’s!

<dismounts high horse>

 

I think they should put some good stuff on tap for all the KBS days, not just Saturday. Given the cluster that the ticket sale was, you couldn't really choose which day you wanted, just had to grab whatever you saw. Would've liked Sat, got Thursday, got it and was happy to have anything.

I'll be disappointed a bit to get up there and have nothing special on tap, but whatever, I guess I'm lucky to have a KBS ticket at all.

 

I am also hoping they have something on during the week but not really expecting it.

 

I'm not just speaking about the non-existent Class 3 beers, but in general, I've noticed more and more that they seem to be drifting away from the core Michigan market. There are fewer and fewer good options for Mug Club members and the KBS ticket sale was an utter disaster.

Tap takeovers here in the Michigan market rarely have anything that can't be purchased off the shelf any day of the week.

Russian River and Hill Farmstead have it right. Focus on your core market's needs first. Michigan should get priority on releases. It's a turnoff to me when I can't get a ticket to buy KBS and I have to read and hear about expansion into Texas, Canada, North Carolina, etc.

 

Exactly. They don't need to put these beers on tap to bring in people. As I have heard, the pub is always packed lately regardless. Since this is the case, it seems to me that it is smarter to distribute and you can spread the wealth that way. You cant please everybody, but distribution pleases more than just having it in a always packed brewpub.

 

Great points. Out of curiosity, do you pour at Flat 12?

 

Class 3 beers at Founders haven't been limited to barrel-aged beers. I too think Founders is stretching themselves thin, but their tap room still has some interesting offerings right now. They have more than a couple non-distributed beers available.

 

While your point is a sound one, this was kind of a dick answer. I agree with the OP, but perhaps his arguement wasn't stated clearly enough to not defend his position.

How do most BAs - non-Michiganders - have Founders on their radar? Sure Centennial is a great, sessionable IPA, and Red's Rye was on the market way before rye became the "it" grain, but were these beers blowing up the ISO threads? Prior to the Breakfast Stout variations, which lead to their experimenting with more and more Class 3 beers, you could walk into a half-empty tap room on any night of the week. KBS, as well as many of the other Class 3s, put Founders on the North American beer map. Sure, demand has boomed for these brews in recent years, but when was the last time you saw a posting or news bit about Founders decreasing production? Why would they not continue to focus, even partly so, on the beers that made them one of the most recognized names in Michigan beer?

 

What gave it away?

 

Thanks for the beer making lesson, I appreciate it. I wasn't criticizing the output volume from Founders, but I think, in your way, you actually proved my point - there's only so much that can be made and you can't boost production overnight to keep up with demand in the marketplace. So why send the beer to Georgia, South Carolina, now Texas (yes, I know technically Texas won't be getting KBS until next year, but you get the point) when you could sell it all on premise to your locals and those willing to travel.

As for PTY - Russian River makes PTY once a year. They do distribute it as a DONG to key accounts/bars around CA, OR and PA but the majority is on tap for 2-3 weeks in their brewpub. They tap a few kegs a day and when they run out they run out. It brings lines of people into their town. I'm sure nearby hotels and restaurants see a lift in business. It's being a beacon for your city, and RR does that with the release. Plus, anyone who wants PtY gets it - sure you may wait in line for 3-4 hours to get in the pub, but people get to try the beer! It just requires a bit more focus and legwork than calling your local store and getting on the list.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think Founders makes more KBS than RR makes PTY. Anyone have insight here?

They probably make enough KBS to tap 5x 1/6bbls a day for a month, no? -- 150x 1/6bbl is like 8,000 bottles (665oz in a 1/6 bbl) - I'm not saying it has to be on 24/7, tap a certain number of kegs a day. I bet they make much more than 8,000 bottles. (edit - fixed my math!)

Plus, again, you made my point for me - they could easily sell it all onsite - so DO IT!

They have figured out the fairest way to tell 85% of their accounts "no". Likewise, the stores have found a way to tell 95% of their customers "no" but that's still not ideal. It creates more trouble/hurt than any single beer is worth IMO.

My point is more retailers & customers DO NOT get KBS than do. This increases the myth of the beer. But this culture, the "gotta have it, rare rare rare" culture is hurting the legitimacy of craft beer IMO and beer releases like this HURT craft beer culture more than they help - they move our focus to the shimmer instead of the gold.

This is exactly my point. Distribute the solid, *distributable* beers that you can make all day. Expand to Europe if you'd like. But keep the goodies for the locals & to drive business to your city. Be a beacon for Grand Rapids.

 

There are lots of things you said that I disagree with, but none more than this. To argue that Founders hasn't embraced their local area is completely wrong. 100% wrong. A portion of the proceeds from the ticketed bottle releases are given to local charities. Founders hosts a shitload of events at local establishments in the GR area. They have done so much for that area. Contending otherwise is just wrong.

I live in MI and I'd love to see larger quantities of Founders beer distributed here. But your contention that Michigan should get more Founders beers because they're located here and that is how some other places do it just makes you sound whiny and entitled.