Let's talk about trade winning and threadsh******.

tired of reading through, but whiskey and mordormongo are right.

if any of you are on the opposite side and are also reasonable people, it's probably because you (rightly) believe that there's no objective value, and beer really is just worth what you're willing to let it go for. however, if you think that's a reason to never educate people and help them be aware that they can get other beers they want (beers they won't be able to get with anything else any time soon), you're just being stubborn / stupid / etc.

 

What makes you think they are predators and prey? Why can't they just be people trading things? You have the "I need to win this trade" mentality. Its not about winning, its about mutually beneficial exchange...and the only 2 parties that can determine what that is are the involved parties. Your opinion doesn't matter, neither does what you perceive a beer to be valued at matter if you are not involved in the exchange.

 

one of the parties involved would have a different opinion if they had more information. being a friend to them would be giving them that information.

what is difficult about this for you?

 

ITT: Used car salesman defend their business practices.

 

I think the thing people have the hardest time with is understanding that value is subjective to the individual. People would rather take their opinion and apply it to everyone. "Hey, you could get more for that!"....what if someone doesn't want more for that? What if they want what they are trading for?

It's not about wanting people to learn through the school of hard knocks...or wanting to trade an IPA for anything. Its about understanding that not everyone is trying to get a Black Tuesday...some people are just trying to get beer's that they can't get at home.

Not trusting me because I hold a different opinion than you? LOL.

 

LOL - I don't even participate in the ISO/FT forum and don't plan to. BIF's are where it is at. Used car salesman? LOL.

 

You think beer has an intrinsic value outside of what someone paid for it. You think that value can lead to someone "losing" or "winning" based on the value they get back. You do have that mentality...it is a pre-req for holding the opinion that you do.

The other position is that beer has the value that the people trading place on it. There is no intrinsic value....no "set price" for the beer other than the dollar's paid for it. That is the position I take, I leave it up to the parties involved to determine its value.

 

How do you know they would feel differently? Because you would? Your opinion is irrelevant...we have been over this.

 

you just don't want to be wrong. people have said outright that they wished they knew more after the fact. you don't understand this?

of course you don't. "we've" been over this, ie it's been explained to you and you ignored it. hopefully you're enough of a joke to actually put this stuff into practice to avoid being wrong. i like performance piece jokes like that. well, being aware of them i guess. i wouldn't like it if i actually knew you.

 

Its not about not wanting to be wrong lol. I just don't presume to know what people want. If they want my opinion they can ask for it. Otherwise....keep your nose on your own face. I guess it's just me though eh?

 

There sure are a lot of people on this site lately with the handle "ignored member".

 

Is no one going to tell AleWatcher that the case of the tub-shitter has been solved?

 

ISO: Lamborghini Aventador FT: '95 Ford Windstar

The Windstar seats more people than the Lambo, and gets far better gas mileage. Some people may even like the styling more. Plus, the Windstar isn't being made anymore, and it's from the first vintage. Seems fair to me.

 

Head threadshitter points out the the correct phrase is, "I couldn't care less". Carry on.

 

^^
whaa?

 

​

& its called negotiation. One doesn't have to label the exact trade in the title because each trader will obviously get as much from the other as they can until a happy medium is reached. The traders will negotiate until both of them are happy with the offer.

Post what you have.
Post what you want.
Expand if needed.

Class dismissed,

cheers

 

Post what you want to trade
Post what you want in return
Make the damn trade, if you decide to expand from there fine. If someone offers your ISO take it, or if you think it isn't enough post a different ISO. It isn't hard at all.

 

First and foremost, as a guy that trades infrequently and considers himself a novice trader, I want to state very clearly that I'm not disagreeing with you and instead had some thoughts/observations I wanted to expound upon based on the sections in bold. I'm giving this disclaimer because I tend to ramble as I work my way towards whatever point I originally had nebulously formed and wanted to express.

I'm no Levitation, so I dont know how many of the multitudes/most outspoken people are the same ones that threadshit on a "Beer X: Whats it going to take?" or "Whats the trade value of X", but those threads are a natural extension of the argument "if they want help they will ask". Anyone thats been around for a short period of time is going to see a lot of the same beers mentioned in the ISO:FT boards and will naturally be curious. Obviously, if all these people are 'ISO: Whatever The Beer of the Day/Week' is these beers have to be awesome, right? Or worse, for someone that sees the same beers coming up frequently enough that you recognize them over a couple weeks/months, obviously these beers have to be delicious and you absolutely MUST tick them.

When I first joined this site on July 6th 2012 (threashit away, fellas!), it was actually easier for me to figure out if a posted trade was lopsided as I would see a sufficient amount of comments all amounting to either "you're probably going to have to add on" or "bm sent" depending on which way it swung (little to the left, in my case). Sure people could get a little overzealous in how they responded, but this is the Internet and a website for people enjoying a hobby that should be limited to those 21+. Hell, even the trolls are pretty tame.

Between the removal of comments and the continued rise in popularity of Craft, new traders had no real way of figuring out whether or not they could get their hands on these beers that the community was hyping. Not in any overt way, but just in the nature of the ISO:FT boards. When huna comes out, people that have it are going to FT it and people that want are going to ISO. This will obviously happen with greatest frequency around the release date, which puts the beer on people's radar. New traders, wanting to try these beers, started posting unrealistic* ISO:FT's and got crickets (perhaps a genuinely informative BM on occaision, that was reacted to poorly based on how individuals react to what they likely feel is unsolicited criticism). Whoever posted the first Trade Value of X/Whats X Going to Take likely opened the floodgates, giving new traders an outlet to ask the questions that the old ISO:FT forums, in an at times unnecessarily hostile way, would have been able to address.

The way things are now, how are you going to know the ratio of BTU's:KHU's? Is Bruery's Griffon Bruxellois not trading at all because there were questions regarding carbonation or because its still underhyped vs Sour in the Rye with Peaches, which has several ISO's? Really, what does it take to land a Huna? Smaller quantity 'loons? BT/CR? Whats my bottle of Wanderer, or Peche 'n Brett, or CS WWB B1 worth? Which of these beers I really want to try do I have the best chance at landing? The new common response is "Why dont you post an ISO:FT", but with no functioning feedback system in place (this is nothing but anecdotal comparison, but it seemed like there was a greater number of comments/post in the old ISO:FT than the new) there's going to be spillover into the Trading:General Help forum as these people are, ask you so succinctly mentioned asking for help.

I dont even know how to tl;dr this.

 

not obvious.