That "Homebrew Taste"

Do you use sugar after the boil? Boiling the sugar perse probably is not contributing to off flavors unless you are scorching it on the bottom of the pot. However...

• I think the amount of sugar called for in some old kits could contribute to off-flavors. Are those high sugar kits still out there? They had a reputation for cidery beer; my earliest homebrews (1988?) support that rep. However, many Belgian style recipes call for as high as 20-30% of their fermentables to come from sugar (Brew Like a Monk). Ron Pattinson has shown (Shut Up About Barlcay Perkins blog) that many English beers use sugar extensively, too. I believe he has reprinted historical recipes with 15-20%. Sugar is also commonly used to dry out saisons and some IPAs. In my own brewing, I have used sugars in the 5-20% ranges and brewed excellent beers that recall nothing of my early homebrewing days. There may be other reasons besides sugar that those early homebrews of mine were cidery.
• In high gravity beers, homebrewers are sometimes concerned that the yeast will first ferment sugar and then not fully attenuate malt, as though they get tired and lazy and forget how to break maltose down into glucose. Homebrewers that are concerned sometimes add sugars only after the yeast get going on the maltose. The tired and lazy analogy is probably a bit of anthropomorphizing, but there is some bio-logic to this idea. I wouldn't mind seeing more data on this, especially data that suggests a gravity cutoff for when sugar might be an issue in this way (likely varies with yeast strain, but a ballpark idea might be nice).

 

Starter, check. Temp control, check. One thing you haven't mentioned is water, are you using tap? You can get a water quality report from your utility company for free. Water chemistry is important for all-grain.

 

Yes, I pretty much made all these changes simultaneously. I now use a propane burner as opposed to a gas stove, so I don't need to leave the lid partially on to keep a rolling boil anymore. I started doing 2 week fermentations, because I got a recipe from a brewery and their recipe called for one week in the primary and one week in the secondary. I figured if they can make beer that good with only one week on the yeast cake, then I'm going to try 2 weeks instead of 3 weeks. I don't secondary my beer. I've been fermenting in the primary for 2 weeks and adding my dry hops after six days in the primary. I've kept my temp between 64-66. I've done this for my last 4 batches as well as cutting out sugar additions (not sure whether or not this was an issue) and every batch has come out fantastic with zero of that flavor I used to get in every beer.

 

I'm neither confirming nor denying the troof of this, but does anyone have a link to something scientific regarding yeast failing to convert maltose/maltotriose etc after consuming ordinary sugar? Along the lines of up/down regulating enzymes etc?

 

I think fermenting at 64-66 has been the single biggest improvement in my beer, and it sounds like it could be in yours too.

I've pretty much always done two weeks for normal gravity beers without much issue. Longer if the gravity is high, but I haven't made many high gravity beers.

I also don't secondary unless there's fruit or some other reason to do so.

 

A couple of the batches I did with a 2 week fermentation had an OG of 1.072 and 1.070. No problems at all.

 

"Do you use sugar after the boil? Boiling the sugar perse probably is not contributing to off flavors unless you are scorching it on the bottom of the pot. "

I'm definitely not saying sugar in the boil has been the contributing factor to an off flavor. It's my understanding that professional commercial brewers use sugar. I used to use either corn sugar or table sugar in every batch (usually only about 8 ozs.) and was just stating that it was one of the changes I made. My best guess is the contributing factor was either a fermentation temp issue, though I've fermented in the 60's before this or boiling with the lid on the pot. Who knows, it could also be that my technique is better and less oxygen is being introduced.

 

Good deal. I've never drank a bottle at 2 weeks I really enjoyed.

 

'Homebrew taste' is IMO a result of poor/no temperature control, pitching an incorrect amount of yeast, and not providing the yeast with enough oxygen. 'Green beer' to me means acetylaldehyde specifically which can result from any of the issues mentioned above.

 

“Update: The taste I was talking about seems to be fading quickly in the bottles!”

It would appear that you found your answer right there: your homebrewed beers are still young (some folks use the descriptor of “green”). Below is something that Al Korzonas wrote in his book Homebrewing Vol. 1 on this topic:

“The appropriate aging time for properly made ales (low in polyphenols and higher alcohols) depends on the original gravity. I usually serve low-gravity ales (less than 1.040 OG) after two weeks in the bottle or keg. For medium-strength ales (1.040 to 1.055 OG), I think four weeks of aging is about right. For strong ales (1.055 to 1.080 OG) you want to condition at least 6-8 weeks. Very strong beers will improve a lot for 9 months and can continue to improve for decades.”

Cheers!

 

"For strong ales (1.055 to 1.080 OG) you want to condition at least 6-8 weeks."

Condition my DIPA for 2 months? That's blasphemy!

I don't associate "green" beer with acetaldehyde. An examle of "green" beer would be when I cracked my last batch after 2 weeks of conditioning. It tasted good, but with heavy additions of cascade, ahtanum, simcoe and centennial, it tasted very spicy. With every passing day, that potent spice would mellow a little more and a little more and after about 2-3 weeks the beer had a softer flavor with little spiciness left, but lots of citrus, apple and peach flavor. The beer changed from good to great.

 

“An examle of "green" beer would be when I cracked my last batch after 2 weeks of conditioning. It tasted good, but with heavy additions of cascade, ahtanum, simcoe and centennial, it tasted very spicy. With every passing day, that potent spice would mellow a little more and a little more and after about 2-3 weeks the beer had a softer flavor with little spiciness left, but lots of citrus, apple and peach flavor. The beer changed from good to great.”

So, a hoppy beer did indeed benefit from ‘extra’ conditioning time in the bottle.

Cheers!

 

Yes, but I would never age a hoppy beer for 2-9 months. There is a point where hoppy beers start going the other way too, ie. hop fade, oxygenation. But as a generalization, I would say an extra week or two in the bottle can give the flavors time to meld and soften and improve the beer.

 

I agree, I find that my very hoppy beers need 10-20 days in the keg before they are at their best. They tend to be overly spicy, coarse or leafy before this in my experience. After another 15-30 days, the pungent dryhop character tends to have faded away.

 

bottle conditioning beer takes a least 6 weeks to start tasting good in my experience.

 

This limited window of greatness is why I tend not to make a lot of hoppy beers. I just can't reap the benefits in 15 day time span.

 

So you have never made a historic British IPA with a pound of EKG for 10 gallons, aged at least 6 months to a year and then dry hopped? This is a fantastic hoppy beer!

 

6 weeks? That sucks.

 

Not yet. Maybe my next batch.