Advocacy vs. Rip-offs

I would say you're debating over a trade that is pretty close to equal
its like when you're out to dinner and you split a 100 dollar bill 3 ways and someone counts out 33 dollars and 34 cents. Close enough and you come out as cheap.

Additionally, whenever someone says: "I've done plenty of my share of advocacy" I'm inclined to disagree on principle. You shouldn't be "keeping track" or considered yourself to have a "share" of advocacy.

I for example, don't consider myself to be an advocate in the way many people here might use the word, I support and promote craft beer and hook up people I know and like (and occasionally random strangers) but I'm not in this hobby for the sole purpose of spreading good beer around. I'm here to drink the things I want to drink.

The constant focus on trade equality, adequate advocacy, etc is just silly.
Don't be a dick, don't properly rip people off, and if beer karma smiles upon you try to share your good fortune with this with less access/money/time than you.

 

This is a perfectly reasonable trade - I'd do it from either side, and I really fail to see the problem. $7 on BCBS is a little outrageous for trade value - I'll buy it on KBS because more stores upcharge there, but it was pretty damn easy to get a 4-pack of BCBS in the $20-$22 range for areas that got it.

Even still, if you call the KBS/BCBS side higher priced, you're only giving up 4 good bottles for 6 good bottles, so you're "winning" in volume, which is worth something in a trade calculus. Ultimately, on an $18-$25 trade like this, extras are going to make the difference in $ value anyway.

All of that said, if the trade makes you uncomfortable, just walk away. Advocacy is a loaded term, and nobody should ever use it to coerce somebody into a trade they don't want to make.

 

You are worried about $8? Did he complain about how your bottles are marked-up at least $2? I see no problem with this trade. None of these beers are that hard to get.

 

advocacy is such a misused and loaded word in this community.

 

Agreed, and lest I give the impression my shit doesn't stink, I know I've misused it plenty of times. Lots of us (myself included) frequently use "advocacy" as a catch-all for terms such as "generosity", "friendliness", and plenty of others.

 

Tell

Him to F-Off and leave the conversation. Enough is enough!

 

I'm having a hard time following when you change your story. There's not a whole ton of advocacy in this trade on either side.

 

Well, well, well.....kind of funny to stumble upon this thread....

I am the person 1UP is referring to, I am definitely going to man up and admit that I told him to look up the definition of "advocacy", right after he looked up the definition of "bait and switch".

Here goes the story, cliff notes version. I deleted the convo, so forgive me if I paraphrase. Basically, I posted an FT: Cherry Rye/ CW ba beers ISO: KBS.

1UP responded, and inquired on what I wanted for everything individually. I presented him an option of 1xCherry Rye, 4x BBBW, and 4xBBS (i believe those where the beers, could have been PM instead of BBS) for 8x KBS. He responded that he already had Cherry Rye but was looking for Belgium Red (sic) and other things....Kuhnhenn, Fifteen, other .rar beers that might be available to me...I informed him what I could, and could not, get....and I would look for what he was interested in. I spent at least 3-4 hours during the week, stopping at my shops after work, checking for the brews he was interested in. I could not find them but sent a message that we could just do 4x BBBW and 4x BBS for 4xKBS. He stated that he wanted to keep a few KBS for himself and maybe we could do 2 x KBS and 2xBCBS instead???

<gimme a sec, need a refill>

OK....so, I returned an offer of 3xBBS and 3xBBBW for 2 BCBS and 2xKBS. He said cool, but maybe I could try to locate the beers he was interested in, he wasn't in a rush....I left it at that, hoping I could find a few bottles to expand and a few bottles as cool extras. That was last week Sat/Sun.

Fast forward to this Saturday. Turns out we message each other within a few minutes of each other, both wondering where we stand. I send another message, stating let's just do the 3xBBS and 3xBBBW for 2xKBS and 2xBCBS. 1UP states, "we can do that trade, but you are going to have to give me a better offer". That's when I cite "advocacy" and "bait and switch".

Sorry for being long winded, just felt the WHOLE story should be told....

 

this is why sending locals for locals is often better than trying to nail down some wants that might be not doable for everyone, get hooked up with a great trader and you will rarely want for beers.

 

What's this? People who read ISO/FT also read General/Help?

 

The best example of advocacy would be the proselytization of the many virtues of craft beer to those who are otherwise "uninitiated".

The trading environment should have very little to do with this when it's mostly just about negotiations between two people who likely already consider themselves "advocates". You're not really advocating anything when you trade. You're just giving what you want in order to get what you want.

 

I guess part of being an "advocate" is following through on the trades you agree to, not agreeing and then holding back for more. I'm a man of my word, and I expect the same from others.

 

Personally I see getting $4$ about right as a sign that you aren't trying to "win" the trade (generic "you" here, not referring to this deal specifically), more so than actually wanting the dollar values to be equal because extras are just going to destroy that anyway. If my side is on the low end I'll always offer to make up the difference with some decent local bottle, then load up the extras. Usually I try to make extras better than "price gap-filling bottles", because it's more fun when the good stuff is a surprise.

 

You admit this is how you handled the trade negotiations?!? That's pretty low. Pretty clear you were trying to fleece atone315 here in getting Fifteen or something rare for KBS. Shades of Spottedzombie here with you starting the thread too.

 

So you don't see a problem with what you did?

 

At this point I dont know what the point of this whole thread is.

 

Abort mission, OP! Not even the dopeness of Megaman can save you now.