first homebrew no good.... help!

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by psnydez86, Apr 8, 2012.

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  1. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    So my first home brew is ready for sampling a little after two weeks in the bottle and it is no where near what I intended. It was a pale ale kit from midwest and I added an extra oz of centennial leaf hops at flameout cuz i love hop forward beers. Here is the instructions that i followed http://www.midwestsupplies.com/media/downloads/84/Rocky Pale Ale.pdf I did everything as they told me too, i used my wort chiller to get the beer cooled down fast and it did and everything went well i think. I didn't do a secondary fermentor like the instructions said just because most people on here told me that it was not nesecary for success. So i left it in the primary for a about 2.5 weeks and then got it into the bottles after fermentation quit (and the flat beer after fermentation tasted pretty good). So i continued with bottling sanitizing everything sterilizing my bottles with the heat cycle in our dish washer, after thorough jet bottle washing and overnint soaks. After two weeks in the bottle i tasted one of the beers and it wasn't too bad but had some sort of clovey finish that just wasnt right, similar to the finish of Leffe Blonde. Now the bottles are about 3 weeks old and the clove taste almost seems to be intensifying. The kit came with WLP002 english ale yeast. Was my sanitizing not quite thorough enough and my bottles are infected?? This hoppy pale ale has almost no hops coming through and it has that clovey finsish that makes this beer more of the belgium brown ale caliber. (my beer wasn't pale at all either probably from being an extract recipe?) Any input would be greatly appreciated and my upcoming batch I will be sure to play closer attention to my sanitizing procedures. Also my beer fermented at a pretty steady temp. of about 66-69 according to the adhesive bucket thermomether.
     
  2. Eriktheipaman

    Eriktheipaman Pooh-Bah (2,303) Sep 4, 2010 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Seems like you've really done your research which is great. What type of water did you use? Also (I'm sure it says in your recipe but I'm lazy), did you do a full boil? The boil size could help explain the hoppiness of the beer.
     
  3. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    almost full boil about 4.5 gallons by the end of the boil. I'm trying to relax and have a homebrew like papazian tells me but this beer sucks! ahhahah
     
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  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Did you use tap water? If so, does your tap water contain chlorine or chloramines? If so, did you treat the water to get rid of them? Or did you by any chance sanitize with a chlorine solution? Chlorine can combine with phenols (from grain and/or hops) to form chlorophenols. And chlorophenols can taste exactly like what you described.
     
  5. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    I didn't use tap water, I used spring water from the store because I'm not sure of my waters contents. I sanitized with easy clean by LD Carlson and the package doesn't mention any thing containing chlorine, I'll have to check into the spring water from the store.
     
  6. Eriktheipaman

    Eriktheipaman Pooh-Bah (2,303) Sep 4, 2010 California
    Pooh-Bah

    I was also thinking this might have been the case if you used tap water. But everything seems to be on the up and up. I will still occasionally brew batches that just come out kinda crappy maybe just give it another shot and if the problem keeps up then look into it more.

    Did you by chance leave a lot of hop particles in there? I feel like after so long they should all be out of suspension though.
     
  7. jmich24

    jmich24 Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2010 Michigan

    Did you use tap water to top off from 4.5 gallon to 5 after your boil? I had the same issue with cloramines in my tap water. I now treat with campden tablets. My only other thought could be that you didnt rinse your sanitizer well enough.

    Good luck finding the issue.
     
  8. MrMonkey

    MrMonkey Initiate (0) May 27, 2007 Maine

    I may be wrong here, but I thought Easy Clean was just a cleaner, not a sanitizer. I personally clean with PBW and sanitize with Saniclean. Perhaps your bottles were surface clean, but not truly sanitized. That may be the source of the off-flavors.
     
    warchez likes this.
  9. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    i didn't rinse the easy clean cuz of a forum on here that most people don't rinse there no rinse cleaners. I used spring water from the store to top off my fermentor also.
     
  10. ixodus

    ixodus Pundit (775) Jul 18, 2010 New Jersey

    Sounds like a chlorine issue to me. Either it's your tap water or something you used to sanitize your bottles. I'm leaning more towards bottle sanitation since the beer was good out of the fermentor. I had this issue once awhile back and it ended up being the tap water. Using campden tablets solved the issue. As for sanatizer I'd suggest using Iodophor or Starsan both are non-rinse and FDA approved and produce no off flavors if used properly.
     
  11. EdH

    EdH Crusader (449) Jul 27, 2005 Utah

  12. Darthballs

    Darthballs Aspirant (289) Feb 4, 2011 Missouri

    Get Starsan, that's all I got.
     
  13. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    I think you nailed it.
     
  14. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    Easy clean is a cleaner, like oxyclean, not a sanitizer. Seems likely that what you're tasting is an infection, unfortunately. Starsan and iodophor are good bets for future sanitation needs.
     
    warchez likes this.
  15. midworken

    midworken Initiate (0) Sep 20, 2009 Nebraska

    I'm not 100% certain that the off-flavors are caused by an infection, but it is definitely a possibility. Sounds like it picked up the infection either in the bottling bucket or one of the siphoning lines because the fermented beer didn't have an off taste but it sounds like the entire batch probably got the infection.Next time, use some Star San or Iodopher and use the 4 step process to clean and sanitize:
    Rinse
    Wash/Clean
    Rinse
    Sanitize

    But don't fret it too much, this stuff happens!
     
  16. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I agree with the possibility of infection - Easy Clean is a cleanser, not a sanitizer.
    http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/easy-clean.html

    Out of curiosity, the NB website describes Easy Clean as a no-rinse oxygen-based cleaner that requires two minutes contact time. I have been using Oxyclean for about 5 years. I don't think anyone would call Oxyclean no-rinse, and two minutes of contact time might be OK if you don't really have any crud that needs cleaning. Is Easy Clean really superior to Oxyclean, or are the claims of no-rinse and 2-minute contact times misleading?

    For mash tuns, bucket fermenters, and kettles, I usually soak in hot water-Oxy for 30 min or longer, and triple rinse. For bottles (which I reusue and rinse well between use) I soak in hot oxy for about 10 minutes and scrub with a bottle brush, then triple rinse. After the rinse, buckets and bottles and other stuff that touches cold side wort or beer gets a Star-san treatment.
     
  17. WickedSluggy

    WickedSluggy Savant (1,129) Nov 21, 2008 Texas

    Indeed it sounds like you are tasting a phenolic off-flavor. It's possible that it is caused by chlorine/chloramine water additives, but I don't think you would perceive those as clove-like. Many wild yeasts also produce these phenolic compounds and some likely ended up in your beer. There are worse infections. Just call it a Belgian style pale ale and drink it quickly.

    On the water side - It is probably worth it to buy a good filter from from a place like Home Depot. A "Whole-House" type filter lasts a long time, and if you read the specs, you can choose one that will filter out many impurities that will effect your beer. Be sure to buy the appropriate plumbing fittings to make it easy to use with your brewing setup. I added garden hose fittings to mine.

    Even though I have, what seems to be a good filter. It does not specifically mention removal of chloramines, so I also add 1/2 metabisulfite tablet along with the other salts to my HLT. This is supposed to eliminate chloramines in up to 20 gallons of water.
     
  18. BushDoctor

    BushDoctor Initiate (0) Oct 27, 2007 New York

    How many times did you check your temperature during fermentation?

    69 is kinda of high and a dip into the low 70's would give you phenols.

    If it was an infection you would taste other off flavors besides phenols.

    Lastly, if an infection is happening in the bottle you would see a small crud ring around the level of the liquid and you will start to get gushers because the wild stuff will ferment sugars the beer yeast did not.

    If you do not have an infection and just have a spicy pale, the phenols will fade with time but so will some hops.
     
  19. HopNuggets

    HopNuggets Initiate (0) Oct 8, 2009 Connecticut

    After you use the heat cycle in the dishwasher, do not rinse b/c they are sterilized when the cycle is complete. Rinsing will add in unknown bacteria or what not from your water.

    Also, you are using a cleanser, not a sanitizer. Get yourself some Iodophor or a sanitizer product to sanitize your bucket and everything that will touch your beer post boil.
     
  20. WickedSluggy

    WickedSluggy Savant (1,129) Nov 21, 2008 Texas


    Phenolic taste is a classic sign of wild yeast infection.

    High temperature mash-out is associated with polyphenols (note the "poly") are associated with astringent bitter taste and chill haze - not the same as phenol/phenolic medicine taste.
     
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