So my 'sour mash' (quotations because I am still extract) turned out to be a tart(barely) mash. Here was my procedure: 3lb wheat dme 1.5 lb pilsner White labs 677 lacto(wanted to use wyeast but lhbs was out) I did not make a starter for the lacto, my reasoning for this was that people make sour mashes with just the natural lacto on grains so I thought a concentrated vial would would be ok(obv regretting this decision) I boiled 3gals, took off flame and added the exract. Pitched the lacto at 110(maybe a little high but I read it doesnt start dying off until atleast 130, if not higher). Kept in oven with light on and saran wrap + lid. After 5 days its only very slightly tart. There is no foul smell what so ever, tastes very sweet and a tad tart, a tad of carbonation. I am thinking A)I shouldve made a starter. B) I pitched a little high temp wise. C) the prehopped pilsner malt was not a hospitial environment for it... Any thoughts on this and any thoughts on what I can do to get this sour, maybe post boil?(Im probably going to boil it up and pitch wyeast 1007 german tonight).
White labs lacto has not produced sour beer when I've used it. Wyeast Lacto on the other hand works very well, so I'd pitch a pack of Wyeast Lacto and let it go another couple days.
Do you know what the temp was during the duration of that 5 days? That could be a deciding factor. If it cooled to0 much, it is possible the lacto stopped early. It looks like you are attempting berlinerweisse, maybe skip the boil and pitch your yeast since your extract came pre-hopped.
Pre hopped extract is always a mistake... In this case it would have had a bactiostatic effect on your lacto culture and may be the main culprit in your sour mash's failure to sour. In addition, you didn't pitch the bacteria too hot, you pitched it too cold. Lacto works best at temperatures above 130f, lower temperatures aren't going to give you a quick souring. If you keep a sour mash around 125-135f, it should sour significantly overnight. I know a lot of people recommend sour mashing at 100f or so, but there is no reason to do it that cold. I have had great results from sour mashing in the 130s and if I remember correctly, that is the temperature range Will Meyers of Cambridge brewing recommends.
I have sour mashed twice with good results. the first time I soured a 2 1/2 gallon batch in my kettle next to a heater at 120 for 5 days. I didn't mean to let it go that long but that temp seems to be really safe. it was nicely puckering tart. the next batch I did was sour mashed for 24hrs at 110. smelled pretty bad and was tart as well. I used raw grain as the source of lacto in both...a couple of ounces.
5 days is nothing. Wait 5 weeks or even 5 months. Souring bugs take their time and you can't rush them. The key to any sour beer is patience.
C. It's definitely the pre-hopped extract. Most bacteria can't tolerate higher than 20 IBU and it's really recommended to be lower than 10 IBU, and that's just for regular souring (which can take months). If you want a sour mash to develop in a week you need no hops and elevated temps.
Beat me to the punch... +1 Also agree with the pre-hopped extract. Hops have great preservative and antiseptic qualities to them...
I know this but that isn't the point of a sour mash. Thanks for all the feedback. I used the pils lme based on several credible recipes I found on here and elsewhere, I usual avoid lme At all cost.
The hops maybe slowed down the lacto? Yes, a starter might have helped. But I suspect some sourness will develop with extended time in a fermented, but it may not be what you want.
But as far as I can tell you didn't sour mash... If you wanted to do an extract sour mash you should have added a handful of crushed grains to your wort post boil at about 110F and left it for a few days like that.
The crush grains are used for the natural lacto they contain, I just pitched the lacto vial straight instead(near 110). And Im pretty sure you do it pre boil, as some berliners dont even do a boil.
Is that true with Lactobaccilus? I was under the impression that lacto alone, or with Saccharomyces, couldn't break down any long-chain sugars over time and so once they ate through the simple sugars they were done. I thought the only long term souring was done by a combination of brett and pedio. Would leaving lacto in a beer really develop more acid over months?
Like others have said, it's probably a combination of low "mash" temp and the pre-hopped extract inhibiting lacto activity. Also, maybe the white labs lacto just doesn't take off that well. 5 days is more than enough time to produce a tart character with lacto, that's the whole point of the sour mash process. If you don't mind the expense, give wyeast lacto a shot and keep the temp closer to 130. Although, there's still the chance that the prehopped extract is going to screw things up again.
