What takes more skill?

Paulaner Salvator double bock for one.

 

That is close, actualy closer than I thought an example would be, but with a lot of qualifiers. The monks didn't start brewing until 1634. The beer they brewed would be very different from today, but was still called Salvator.

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/comp...Brauerei-GmbH-amp;-Co-KG-company-History.html

 

Nicely stated, and to make it even more explicit, these local/regional conditions are what makes for the "culture" part of "beer culture," something that comes from history and geography over the long term rather than from some recently conceived marketing program. Would that I were better able to travel...

 

Where is it written that one can't be a master of more than one trade?

 

Indeed, and their inter-relationship is complex. One can be highly skilled and not very creative, but one can not be consistently creative without also being highly skilled.

 

Not really true. For most countries, their primary beer styles date from the 19th century (and sometimes the 20th). They were brewing before 1776, but not the same beers they are brewing today (with some exceptions).

 

It may or may not be "world class", but my zoigl is pretty damn good. And Ive blind tested it (other people, not myself tasting) against commercial pale lagers, and it more than holds its own. Of course, the ones Ive tested it against have been american examples, so they might not be considered world-class either.

 

Ecclesiates 1:9

"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." [NIV translation]

Not sure why you credited it to "ancient text" instead of Solomon.

 

They didnt have lager yeast in 1634, for one thing.

Salvator is maybe 150 years old in its current form. Maybe.

 

Would love to see this Zoigl recipe, as I have been searching for a good one for a while now. Some might say that it is easier to hide flaws in an unfiltered beer like a Zoigl than in a crystal clear, crisp pils or a balanced helles. Regardless, if you're willing to share I'd be very appreciative. Prost!

 

I have some very good Pils and Helles on tap. They take a little more time, effort, process and equipement, but you can find all of the information on line. The German malt, hops and yeast can be bought. The water can be built from RO. Had several score in the low 40's last year, which is not too shabby.

 

Damn you! I had no idea of this Zoigl. Looks like I need to head out there and try some.

 

You just need to head over by the Czech border, to the towns that have the Zoigl.

 

Yeah I found a site, zoigl.de has a lot of good info.

 

I'd say that one of the more impressive things about a lot of the brewers/breweries that we have access to now is that one can cover all those bases with equal value. In the US, which is the only market I can directly comment on-
You've got breweries like Sierra Nevada, Stone (I almost hate to admit that one, but gotta), New Belgium, DFH, and so on, that offer reliable, consistent beers in approachable styles at reasonable prices. If you need a go-to beer, you'd be hard pressed to NOT find an option there.
You've got breweries that fulfill niches in a solid manner without being too experimental. One of my new locals, Jack's Abbey, does a super job at that. All lagers, with a mix of some traditional styles and a good number of slightly off-the-beaten-path Lagers that, while not being too far "out there", do indeed create some superbly well done and new, interesting brews.
Then you've got the breweries and beers that really push the limits, while still being solidly well crafted; DFH experimental brews. Russian River's impressive sours and use of hops. The breweries cranking out barrel aged beers that actually work. Boulevard's Rye on Rye... a recent "holy crap" brew for me.

syu3003 notes enjoying the go-tos, which we all can- but suggests that his quest to try new things might end.

I would counter that- we've got our go-tos to enjoy, but I'd question wether the quest to try new things will end. Sure, the bubble may burst... but it may not. We might continue for a long time to have a ready stable of new and interesting things to check out.

Or I'm just babbling incoherently. Maybe I need a beer... good thing I've got some good ones.

 

It's difficult to imagine that nobody thought of making a strong pale ale with lots of hops before 15 years ago and of course such brews were commonplace before WW1. The name DIPA wasn't used as such but styles as we know them hadn't been invented.
A couple of links;
http://sites.google.com/site/thx1138group/commemorative/1928-barclay-perkins-kk
In this link, Kristen England who is by the way theBJCP's Continuing Education Director says "this one for sure looks like the very first DIPA ever made"

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/lets-brew-wednesday-1868-william.html

 

note also that a lot of "new styles" occur because of the availability of new ingredients (e.g. new hop varietals).

obviously, the similar-IBU, similar flavor/aroma addition amount beers of the past didn't taste like present day american DIPAs. this is not due to the creativity of the american brewer... it's due (solely) to new hops being available.

---

p.s. once again, the dichotomy is false anyway; experimentation happens everywhere.

 

While Budweiser hasn't been around for that long, my sources say that a (Mi)Chelada-like beer has been around for 500+ years! Apparently the Incas were quite fond of this beverage. Stay thirsty, my friend...

In all seriousness, maybe something similar to Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier (~600 years)?

 

America is the best country for beer in the world. It isn't even close, for a reason. Americans make everything.

Also, bourbon barrels. Suck it Europe!

 

I.P.A.! I.P.A.!