Let down after tasting my lager before bottling..

All the time before I worried about temp control. It's still young. Let it go for 4 more months.

by "hot" do you mean boozy? Like someone dropped a shot of vodka into it?

 

It's possible that you haven't provided enough information for anyone to answer your question. You'll probably need to let an experienced lager brewer taste your beer. Hopefully it will turn out okay. Don't be too discouged or expect great things from your first batch.

 

Please, show us your fermentation temps schedule accurately

 

That schedule sounds a bit weird to me, why did you spect 21 days to do a diacetyl rest?.Nevertheless that schedule have nothing to do with your ´hot´beer taste.Did you mash too low?

 

Four weeks is a fairly short lagering period, especially if this beer is over 1.050 OG or so. There is a very good chance the beer will continue to improve with a few weeks of "bottle lagering" to follow your bottle conditioning phase.

Seriously, I had a pilsner a little while back that just tasted nasty as I was kegging it--completely out of balance and just harshly bitter. I was disappointed, but knowing it would continue to condition in the keg I carbed it up and let it sit for a while. Two weeks later, it was different beer. Four weeks later it was awesome. So... patience, grasshopper.

 

Your mash temp is nothing unusual, so as others have said be patient,hope your beer will turn out fine.

 

You will get used to tasting your beer before bottling or keging. They are never the same.

 

I don't usually bottle condition lagers, since I have a kegging set-up, so maybe someone else should chime in here. But yes, I would bottle condition as usual, assuming you've already primed and bottled, and then plan on keeping the beer at ~40F for a while, knowing that it should continue to improve. (If you haven't already primed and bottled, just continue layering.) You could drink it as soon as it's carbed, of course, and you might as well try it at that point, but I think your lagering time was a little on the short side, so I think this beer will benefit from waiting a while.

For future reference, the rule of thumb a lot of people use for lagering time is "one week per 2 degrees plato" of OG, though some people say it should be more like 10 days per plato. (A degree plato being about 4 gravity points.) So let's say your beer was 1.056 OG. That would translate to seven weeks (or more) of lagering time. Not a hard and fast rule, but that will give you some idea of the "usual" thing to do.

 

None of my beers taste good to me until they are carbonated, chilled, and aged for a few weeks and sometimes longer. Patience, grasshopper.

 

MLucky quoted a popular rule of thumb of "one week per 2 degrees Plato". I should state up front that this is the rule that I personally follow for lagering my beers.

Below is an extract of an article that Bill Pierce wrote for BYO magazine. As you will read the above rule of thumb is part of a ‘series’ of rules from Greg Noonan (author of the book “New Brewing Lager Beer”).

“How long to lager is a matter of some discussion. Light American lagers are typically held near freezing for 10–20 days, while some strong German doppelbocks are lagered as long as six months. For medium to high-gravity beers, Greg Noonan — brewpub owner and author of “New Brewing Lager Beer” (1996, Brewers Publications) — recommends 7–12 days per each 2 °Plato of original gravity. (One degree Plato is roughly equal to 4 specific gravity “points.”). For lower gravity lagers the time is reduced to 3–7 days. According to those guidelines, a 1.064 O.G. German bock should be lagered for 56–96 days, while a 1.040 American lager would be lagered 15–35 days.”

So, as you can read above there is some flexibility in selecting a lagering time for your beer. For example, to lager a 12P (1.048) beer you could lager on the shorter end of the duration: 3 x 6 = 18 days.

I do not think the OP is suffering issues due to a ‘short’ lagering timeframe. What has me a bit concerned is the description of “hot”. I personally associate the descriptor of “hot” with the presence of excess fusels in a beer. I am ‘scratching my head’ on why there would be excess fusels based upon what I have read so far.

I took note of: “My first mistake could have been my pitching temp. I pitched at 57 degrees …” Pitching at 57 degrees is OK. You shouldn’t experience any issues there.

There was some discussion about 3 weeks and then conducted a diacetyl rest. By the 3 week mark the beer should have pretty much reached final gravity (primary fermentation complete). Conducting a diacetyl rest at that point is for the most part a moot point since final gravity was reached. No harm was done by doing a diacetyl rest but in all likelihood nothing was achieved either. You shouldn’t have waited so long if you intend to do a diacetyl rest:

Below is from Dave Miller (beer author):

“Your understanding of the diacetyl rest is basically correct. It should be done when fermentation is about two-thirds complete, as measured by beer gravity. For example, if you have a 1.054 beer and anticipate a final gravity of 1.012, that means a drop of 42 points. Two-thirds of 42 is 28, so when the gravity of the beer has dropped 28 points - to 1.026 - rack the beer to the secondary and let the temperature rise to 60 degrees F or so. Normally, a diacetyl rest lasts about 48 h, but it varies according to the requirements of the brewer.”

FWIW, I have never conducted a diacetyl rest in any of the lagers I have made (over 50 batches of lagers) and I have never experienced any diacetyl issues.

Cheers!

 

I know on your second lager you were talking about building up some yeast. What about the yeast on this first one - I believe this was a 100% Munich beer with WLP 830? Multiple vials? Starter? Oxygenation?

 

It's like tasting your beer prior to hitting FG. It's rarely something you'd want a warm pint of.

Yes. You probably need to carbonate your beers at room temp. You've already cold crashed most of the yeast out of the beer. They will perform best at room temp. After that you'll want to lager your beers, (cold condition), for what I'm guessing as long as you can hold off. The beer should get much better over the next four months. Try another in 2-3 weeks. You'll want to make sure they carb up. After that, put them aside in a lonely corner of your fridge. Sorry, but you'll have to buy some Dos Equis this year for Cinco De Mayo.

I know it's damn impossible, but you need to get your wort a few degrees below fermentation temp. By the time you get your beer to the fridge it will have gone up a few degrees. You want to hit ~50F and stay at 50F until you hit your diacetyl rest. I'm assuming if you got your beer to 57 you have a pre immersion chiller, right? You'll need lots of ice and maybe some salt to help drop the cooling water temp.

 

“ ..but you need to get your wort a few degrees below fermentation temp.” That is the traditional (industrial) way of brewing lagers.

Below is what Kai Troester discusses on the topic of pitching temperatures on his blog:

“Cold vs. Warm pitching

Among home brewers there is is often debate regarding the proper pitching temperature for lagers. Some say that you need to pitch warm to allow for better initial growth of the yeast and others say that you need to pitch below the primary fermentation temperature.

To understand that both sides have valid arguments one has to understand where they are coming from. Warm pitching has been introduced by home brewers and yeast manufacturers because it allows for pitching a lager with a smaller pitching rate and leads to a shorter lag time which is less concerning for the first time lager brewer. That's why warm pitching was suggested in the "Your first lager fermentation" section above. To pitch warm, chill your wort until it has a temperature of 65 - 68 °F (15 - 18 °C) aerate it well and pitch the yeast. Now wait until you see signs of fermentation (low kraeusen or bubbles in the airlock) and move it to an area where you maintain about 50 °F so that the wort can cool down while the yeast starts to take off.

Industrial lager brewing only does cold pitching because the proper pitching rates and yeast health can be ensured. Because of the initially higher fermentation temperatures, warm pitching is associated with an increased level of ester, diacetyl and fusel alcohol production which are components that, at higher levels, are not desired in a lager. Diacetyl will be reduced by the yeast during the maturation of the beer but most of the esters and higher alcohols can carry over into the finished product.

That's why cold pitching is also recommended for the home brewing of lager beer as long as a proper pitch of healthy yeast is available. If this is not the case, cold pitching can lead to a very long lag time and sluggish fermentation. In order to pitch cold, chill the wort to 43 - 48 °F (6 - 9 °C) and resuspend the yeast with some wort. Make sure to break up all clumps. If you have a stir plate, stirring the wort and yeast for a few minutes will take care of that very nicely. Now pitch it into the wort and place the fermenter in a space with a constant temperature of 46 - 50 *F (8 - 10 *C). Most brewers use a fridge or freezer chest with an external temperature control for this. Expect the fermentation to start within 16 - 36 hrs. For lager fermentation the lag time should not be too short. Because of the low beer (it is actually beer since yeast has already been pitched) temperature there is less risk of contamination since the metabolism of the bacteria and wild yeast is also reduced. The lag time also appears longer for lagers because the colder beer can absorb more CO2 before it is forced out of solution and forms the Kraeusen. If you are concerned that your yeast isn't active after pitching, measure the pH of the beer. If it dropped from the lower to mid 5's at pitching time into the upper 4's 12 hrs after pitching, the yeast is doing alright. The lowered pH already provides additional insurance against infections. Oftentimes you can also see a stratification of yeast. In this case the very top layer of the beer seems darker and less cloudy. The yeast is in suspension in the cloudy beer just below that layer. I have had low Kraeusen formation as late as 48 hrs after pitching. Though I don't like it to take that long, the beer turned out just fine.”

Cheers!

 

good stuff from Kai, as always.