Latest Pipeworks Releases and Updates

Marilime Law Ninja will be off the shelf before anyone who would be confused even sees it. If you had 2 breweries naming it the same exact thing and trying to distribute in the same area both in 6 packs then I think it would be cause for concern. If you really thought it was an issue you could have done some research too. I think most anyone you ask would say the clientele that will purchase this beer will 100% know the difference between the two. Marilime Law Ninja will probably not even hit the shelves in most situations. While I respect your concern it is in my opinion that is an over-reaction and it just seems to have made life difficult for both parties.

 

This is the correct solution.

 

That "official response" reads like it was written by the kid who asks for an essay final when the rest of the class wanted multiple choice.

Yeah, that's the best way I could describe it without profanity or sexual references.

 

I'm curious if you guys sent the same type of message to Grand Teton when they released their Sheep Eater Scotch Ale, and if not, why pick on Pipeworks?

Them releasing Scurvy Ninja wouldn't have hurt you guys. It seems the people in charge didn't really care as they're not the ones sending out C&Ds, but a Front Operations Manger decided to take actions to try to make herself more valuable to her company, and now she has to respond as it's not going the way she'd have hoped.

These are of course just my opinions, but I plan to vote with my dollars, and I can let you know, I will never buy another bottle of Tyranena Scurvy.

 

I think the real lesson to be learned here is don't post something to BA/twitter/facebook/etc if you don't want it to possibly show up on beerpulse later and blow up into something bigger than it needed to be...

 

I will continue to buy Pipeworks and I will also continue to buy the limited offerings from Tyranena that suit me. My wife loves Hop *****, I do enjoy fresh Scurvy, and I will buy the shit out of Doubly Down and Dirtier as soon as it hits the shelves.

As has been proven MANY times in the past across MANY industries, lack of communication does nothing but create a massive clusterfuck.

 

i don't buy tyranea regularly, but i have absolutely no issues with how they handled the situation. once it was mentioned that scurvy was not only a beer distributed in the same area, but also an IPA with citrus added and with a pirate themed label, i actually sympathized with them. maybe it could have been handed better on both sides, i don't know, but the fact is, if you don't protect your trademarks you stand to lose them.

the best solution (imo) would have been to provide a retroactive trademark license for the name for this release only, and if it's made again, they have to change the name (which is what widmer did with great lakes alchemy hour).

 

The Ninja formerly known as Scurvy

 

businesses protecting their business, makes sense. Can we stop now and talk about more funny names for the beer?

 

I see the only way to solve this is a collab between Tyranena and Pipeworks called "Ninja vs. Scurvy"

 

As a fervent beer nerd who enjoys both Tyranena and Pipeworks offerings, and as an attorney who does some trademark work, I feel a bit compelled to explain why Tyranena likely needed to do what it did (or some version thereof).

Trademarks aren't simply a matter of registering a name and then sitting back securely, knowing your branding is protected. You get trademark protection by being first to a particular market with a particular product using a particular name. However, if you learn that some other company has entered your market using a similar name and you do nothing to protect your product (which was first to market), then you can lose your trademark on it.

Sure, if this is just a Pipeworks one-off, in the micro sense, this doesn't seem like much of a problem. Beer nerds probably won't be to confused by the two beers, and the Pipeworks one will likely come and go in a flash. But, the Pipeworks beer might be well-received and become a regular offering. Honestly, many "regular" beers start out this very way. Then perhaps it's a bit more of a problem.

But the nightmare scenario is that Pipeworks releases this beer one or more times, Tyranena does nothing, and then everyone goes on their merry way. A couple of years later, MillerCoors decides it's going to offer Scurvy Wheat Ale (with Real Orange Flavor!). Tyranena tries to fight MillerCoors' use of that name. MillerCoors then gets to say "You're not entitled to trademark protection, because when Pipeworks released a beer with 'Scurvy' in the name, you did nothing." MillerCoors then wins an expensive court battle (or Tyranena, as a small business, understands it can't even undertake one against such a behemoth) and Tyranena ends up having to either accept its product being confused with the MillerCoors offering or change the name of the beer.

So anyway, you may or may not think it's ok for Pipeworks to offer a similarly-named beer in the same market. Honestly, reasonable people could disagree on that. But, Tyranena has broader concerns than just dealing with this immediate issue. Keeping quiet now could lead to much bigger problems down the line.

Anyway, my two cents, just to help people avoid the pitchforks and torches. C&D letters often seem super dickish, but they can be a necessary evil (at least until people make some sensible reforms to trademark law). Plus, having it in writing is a lot better than picking up the phone (though you can and should do that, too, to be friendly!) just so you have some record of trying to protect your brand in case anyone down the line tries to have your trademark torn up.

 

I still haven't had any luck finding Cascade or Simcoe Ninja ( was in the hospital and missed release) But I did score 3 of these today!

 

ISO - FT:Simcoe Ninja

 

I do believe I said a call in addition to the letter is the best approach, so I'm not sure you have a real quibble with me.

 

Tyranena protecting their IP and hard work in an overlapping market is not in dispute (whether a well founded claim or not). They 100% have the right and obligation to protect it or it can become diluted and they run the risk of losing it. This is not where we have issue. The issue comes from the response that seems a bit heavy-handed. Tyranena, as a brewery, is not the bad guy, but a letter CC'ing their lawyer, questioning whether or not we understand what 'trademarking [is] in general' and 'asking' us to comply with their very specific course of action, certainly can be inturpreted as threatening and like an ultimatum.

The fact that Tyranena's Scurvy is also pirate themed, an IPA with citrus, as well as the history of the beer and the need to include statements like, 'I've discussed this with the owner' are completely superfluous (Adjective - Unnecessary, esp. through being more than enough. redundant - needless) to the fact that the name alone could be considered confusing in a common market. One could say this is being thorough, another, of whom you are 'asking' to comply, might find it condescending.

We've had numerous potential intellectual property disputes and not a single one ever used the word 'cease' or actively CC'd our counsel. It's antagonistic. Usually we would handle it something like this:

"Hi Pipeworks,

not sure if you guys are aware or not, but one of our core brands is called "Scurvy IPA" and we have and will continue to distribute that in the Chicago market. We'd ask that you could please consider a revised name for your upcoming release as to not possibly cause confusion with our brand and potentially devalue what we've worked hard for.

Please let us know if you understand where we are coming from as soon as possible as time is an issue before you launch your new product,

Cheers,
Tyranena."

To paraphrase, Stacey's e-mail basically reads as: "Hi Gerrit & Beejay, CC'laywer Dan, talked to owner, do you know what a trademark is?, we look forward to your course of action as long as it's the one that we have outlined for you."

- Regarding beernews, Adam has been extremely helpful to us since we started in basically 2009, so we're always glad to have him as a resource and virtual scribe of craft beer growth. This thread has been a place where we feel comfortable saying it like it is and we have our regular group of posters and readers on here. Lots of insider stuff has been disclosed here without it becoming a topic on beernews. However, Adam feels, like Stacey also mentioned above, that as the industry becomes more crowded, IP disputes are something that need to be addressed as they (even minor ones) are become more and more common. Upon waking up and learning that my post was now on beernews and had been taken to Twitter... I immediately wrote Adam to please take down the post as we hadn't responded to Tyranena (which should have been done in the first place... but agitated, very tired me, always gives you the scoop here on our thread.. not a lot of time had passed... and honestly... when did beernews start posting on the weekends!). At this point, the damage had been done, and Adam felt it was something that did need to be discussed (not this particular instance, but that brewery IP disputes need to be on everyones radar because they are going to be more and more frequent). After my second e-mail to Adam, he wisely froze the comments on the initial posting.

The brewers gone wild series is one of the best things to happen to craft beer and anyone who lives in an area that can get those 4-packs should truly feel blessed. You can't find barrel aged beer for that price point and accessibility anywhere else (that we know of). Always been huge fans of Tyranena, used to drive up to Woodmans all the time to bring back cases. We didn't do anything on purpose, so ease up with the C&D letters.

 

yea that's a very good question... both got sheep on the labels, both got sheep in the name, both distributed in Chicago, both scotch ales...

 

Kudos to Tyranena for coming on here and explaining themselves a bit. I like both companies and will continue to support. Let's just put this behind us.

 

For real- what's done is done, hopefully the two parties can communicate privately regarding the issue from here on out.

 

sooooo.... how bout that orange truffle?