Beer Trading & Beer Karma

Two traders enter, one trader leaves

 

I know you're not responding to me here, but since I made a related point, I'll rephrase it: I came here with virtually no knowledge of craft beer, to learn, and if I had to write reviews to be counted as a full participant in this site, they would have been woefully uninformed. Even now, I don't feel like I've tried enough things to have a fully informed opinion beyond "I like this and would buy it again" or "meh". Why should I not be allowed to trade?

Related question: what if I don't WANT to write reviews? Why is it important that I do so?

 

Well said on all points. I think that the sense of community and connection is the best argument for requiring some sort of minimum level of participation. I still think that some of the benchmarks posted earlier in this thread are way too high, though.

One very positive thing I've described to non-BAs about this site is that the trading culture, despite all of the complaining about it, is actually pretty cool. The concept of extras, the fact that people consistently hook up regular trading partners and complete strangers, and the success of almost all BIFs and LIFs are a testament to a strong, generous culture of advocacy. So there are threadshitters, occasional bad traders, and several varieties of assbags on top of the positives? I don't think that means the system is broken, it just means it involves people. I've had almost uniformly great experiences trading, and the non-great experiences were all just fine. I don't think drastic measures are needed, and I think it's important for newbies to at least be able to read about all the generous things that happen so they can absorb that part of the culture, too.

 

I think that's why so many different kinds of participation are rewarded with Beer Karma, while trading is something the Alströms keep at arms' length. Yes the trading sections are popular, but trading is not the reason this site exists! I think a lot of people (both n00bs and veterans) don't get this, or forget it from time to time.

 

I'm a new member, and am likely to be affected by whatever may be changed.

Honestly I find that the uncertainty right now over my ability to fully utilize this site alongside the uncertainty about how to best mitigate potential negative changes to my privileges a little worrisome. I understand the desire to encourage only committed and honest people to use the trading forums because an abundance of negative experiences for users hurts both the site's reputation and individual users' desires to continue trading with new/unknown people. But I don't believe that additional hoops to jump through for users is the right way to go about managing that part of the community.

I'm going to draw on my experience from another trading community, one for trading valuable collectible cards, because my experience here is nonexistent and there, while my experience is limited, I am familiar enough with the system to know what has worked best for it. There, a few criteria are used for determining who should "send first" in a trade: join date, completed trades/references, and post total/activity within the community/reputation. While I don't think these things all are applicable here, what I do think is that trading should be accessible to new members while providing the best "insurance" for established members, and I think the card trading community's system makes some progress in that direction -- here is how I would love to see things implemented here.

1. If a trader has fewer than n completed trades (2, 3 perhaps) and his trading partner has more established trades, the new trader should send first. Upon receipt of the new trader's shipment, the established trader should send his package in return. Think of this as a "cost of entry" or earning the privilege of simultaneous trading and reputation.

2. Additionally, I'd love to see a trade feedback system implemented. That is, both parties should review the trade transaction, and feedback should be publicly viewable, as should the source of that feedback. Something along the lines of eBay, except where negative feedback that is deserved doesn't actually just go away. Good rating metrics would be things along the lines of "appropriateness of value of contents/was the right stuff actually sent", "was the shipment prompt", "was the shipment packaged well", and "was the communication of the trader good throughout the trade." Detailed trade reviews should be accessible, and should be encouraged upon completion of any trade.

For the amount of time users put into trading, this seems like a minimal cost with an up-side of establishing a self-policing group. Additionally, it allows established traders to continue doing what they love doing, regardless of non-trade activity, and it allows new traders to enter the system and become established with the security of established traders' investments given priority. Personally, I don't have concerns that some known trader is going to screw me over, and I know I'm not going to screw someone over. But for someone who is looking to trade with me, a new unknown, I completely understand being worried about sending valuable beers. Introducing additional user constraints/requirements, however, isn't the answer and only makes the community inaccessible and thus discouraging to new users. Instead, aim for a system that allows new users in, but in a way that respects the concerns of those already established.

tl;dr: new users send first, have a rating system, don't increase waiting time, post requirement, or karma requirement because it only encourages gaming of the system while discouraging new users and not actually solving the problem.

edit: if this is how it already works, then good job guys. I told you I was an uneducated noob.

 

I think paying would most likely dissuade the occasional trader. If your doing 3 trades a week, the fee prob doesn't seem do bad. Those only doing one a month, might find it hard to make that post.