Death to flagship beers?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by hellhammermario, Jun 18, 2013.

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  1. GreenCoffee

    GreenCoffee Initiate (0) Jul 2, 2012 Illinois

    I'm surprised this isn't more common. Seems smart on a small scale.

    I think the existence of a year round "flagship" beer should come as a result of what the market demands. If you develop a limited release beer that is massively in demand, makes you money, and you can source the ingredients year round/handle the labor, then THAT should be your year round "flagship" beer.

    Unless your goal is a macro model from the start and then your flagship should probably be your "least craft" offering - the gateway beer that will appeal to the lowest common denominator and rack up sales on a broad scale.

    Well that's how I'd do it. Maybe that's why I'm not in the brewing business.
     
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  2. frazbri

    frazbri Initiate (0) Oct 29, 2003 Ohio

    Just a few years ago Oberon, as a seasonal, was Bell's biggest seller. (of course Two Hearted wasn't a year rounder then, either)
     
  3. Biffster

    Biffster Initiate (0) Mar 29, 2004 Michigan

    My experience with brewers that I know is that their "flagships" started out as just another offering that happened to nail it. Demand skyrocketed, and in the case of the three or four brewers I know personally with a "flagship", when they finally nabbed a decent distributor deal, it was what the distributor could place and what they demanded. Next thing you know, they are adding capacity just to get stores and bars off of allocation and to please the distributor. But it is giving them recognition and getting other offerings on the shelf. So everyone wins.

    Also, the ones I am thinking of are not "macro-lager-ish" by any means. Two were cult favorites that had people driving across state lines before distribution and capacity got the beers out there, and a couple are big, character beers that are by no means "macro-ish"

    I am sure there are breweries out there that went in with a "flagship" strategy. I don't know any personally. So I don't fault anyone for following the market. In my personal experience, it allows the brewer the flexibility to get other seasonal offerings out of their taproom and on to store shelves. I count that as a good thing.
     
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  4. frazbri

    frazbri Initiate (0) Oct 29, 2003 Ohio

    Of course the owners of Founders consider the day they decided to brew to their tastes instead of trying to brew beer they thought people wanted the turning point for their business. Sometimes you have to trust your own skills and your taste preferences.
     
  5. LukeH

    LukeH Initiate (0) May 5, 2013 Minnesota

    I think that doing things on your own terms can be a very good starting point for a business, but, once you've arrived and built a customer base doing that, you'd probably better listen to the people who are supporting you and paying your bills. Founders probably wouldn't do do away with their Centennial IPA or Breakfast Stout (two beers that I assume sell well) even if these beers are no longer fun for them.
     
  6. mactrail

    mactrail Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,999) Mar 24, 2009 Washington
    Mod Team BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    New Belgium, I think, owes a lot of its success to its Fat Tire, which is a great name and not much else. But it is a flagship any brewery would wish for. Years ago a NB rep told me the money they make on Fat Tire enables them to make all the weirder styles they want. Tho at 12 bucks a bomber, maybe now they're making more on their Lips series.
     
  7. trbergman

    trbergman Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2006 England

    I'm well aware of all the beer geek tropes I'm invoking, but Alchemist could be a 50k+ bbl brewery if they opened up wider distribution. Keep it year round in Vermont and Boston, and send shipments to other (select) markets as available, without overloading local demand. I think the future of craft beer lies just as much in specialization.
     
  8. Ispeakforthetrees

    Ispeakforthetrees Initiate (0) Apr 2, 2012 Colorado


    Gotta think of some of their ingredient cost.
    Even at $12 dollars, they use ingrendients that are above costs and state of the art equipment.
     
  9. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    Didn't read all the replies but:

    Two of my friends are to be co-brewmasters at a soon to open gastropub. One told me the customers will decide what is their flagship.

    The owner of another new brewery, open for a year now and doing spectacularly, told me he refuses to have a beer considered a flagship beer.

    Personally, if/when I am brewing commercially I do want a flagship, and I do want to choose it myself.
     
  10. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,884) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    That's kind of what happened with Defiant and their Muddy Creek Lager; I don't think Neill really wanted to be predictable at all when he first opened, or even have a flagship- but the way the locals took to that particular beer was pretty surprising.
     
  11. therobot

    therobot Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2010 Minnesota

  12. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (2,084) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
    Pooh-Bah

    We'll they're fibbers for one thing. They have a Mild that's supposedly brewed to a recipe from 1880, but is only 1038ยบ. Far too weak.
     
  13. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Savant (1,207) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    For craft breweries, that isnt the archetype. Its far too rare. Ive seen the definition that a "loyal" craft brand consumer is one who buys something from that brewery twice per month.

    And thinking about it, Im not sure if there is any brewery that I consistently purchase, in store or on tap, twice per month. Maybe Bell's, but probably not every month, but they might be the closest.
     
  14. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Savant (1,207) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    But they dont make CBS nearly as often as people want it. It isnt even annual like KBS, but just a whenever kind of thing.
     
  15. LukeH

    LukeH Initiate (0) May 5, 2013 Minnesota

    At the risk of maybe sounding cynical, I wonder if that's not a business strategy on their part; increase anticipation. If that's true, it probably smart, as craft beer drinkers tend to like to move around. It's not like they've completely stopped making it; they just make you wait and wonder when they are going to brew it again, and, when they do, I imagine it flies off the shelves far faster than it would if it were available year round or even seasonally.
     
  16. Kinsman

    Kinsman Maven (1,457) Aug 26, 2009 Nevada

    I think there is far more brand loyalty in craft beer than people give credit for. Granted, it's not the same as macro drinkers who swear by their AAL of choice, but just think about every time there is a thread announcing a new beer from Stone, Sierra Nevada, Founders, Firestone Walker, etc... Instantly the thread fills up with replies like "can't wait to try" or "ISO". These breweries have been around the block a few times and they've earned their reputation so now most of us will happily drink their beer on a semi-regular basis and try anything new from them. And this is just within the relatively small beer geek community. You rarely see breweries like Harpoon or Long Trail mentioned on these forums yet they are two of the largest craft breweries in the country (9th and 18th on the 2012 Top 50 list). They wouldn't be there without some brand loyalty amongst their consumers.
     
  17. GreenCoffee

    GreenCoffee Initiate (0) Jul 2, 2012 Illinois

    To that point, I think some beers lend themselves more to this sort of treatment than others. Stouts, barleywines, etc. Even if something like Parabola or BCBS was on the shelves year round, I'm not sure I would buy it more often than a couple times a year anyway. It's expensive and there's only so many times I can drink something so rich. Likewise, I don't care how good your American Blonde Ale is, it probably won't be seen as a big "event" beer that you can release with extra hype added.

    I don't even see this as cynical. It's just smart business. Even if I'm in the minority and most people would buy specialty beers regularly, it presents a separate problem: if every brewery released their big expensive hype bombs year round, some will think "why buy anything 'normal' from those breweries?"
     
  18. cpz28

    cpz28 Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2007 Illinois

    I like when a brewery is somewhere in the middle. It's great to have flagships, as long as they're good (and if they aren't, the rotational stuff probably sucks too). I also like to go to a place and check out something new every time too (it can be boring if a place always/only has the same 6 things). The thing about flagships is those beers are/can be dialed in to be perfect because they are always getting brewed. One offs may hit it on the head or they may miss. Most of the time when I got to FFF, I get an Alpha King or Zombie Dust in addtion to what ever new stuff I want to try. It's nice to know that no matter what new stuff a place has, there is going to be an old stand by you know you love.
     
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  19. drgarage

    drgarage Initiate (0) Aug 19, 2008 California

    Phony flagships are definitely pointless, ie: brewing a beer and proclaiming it to be your flagship. But pretty much every brewery has one beer that makes up the majority of its volume. It's just a numbers game, whether it's a seasonal or not.
     
  20. Providence

    Providence Pooh-Bah (2,652) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Interesting stuff. Thanks for the read.

    I don't know how I feel about this. Part of me feels like it makes a lot of sense while part of me feels like you wouldn't say this if you could make a killer year-round flagship.

    I notice that they don't list any one beer that will be releaed all year, however, there will be an IPA, a saison and a stout year round. Sure they are different types of those styles, but there are many more similarities than differences in those brews no doubt. This makes me think that while beer enthusiasts love variety, we also like a certain brew or type of brew that we can alwasy rely on. Sounds like a flagship to me.

    What's the difference between them making four IPA's, one every season and Sierra Nevdada making Topredo all year long? Again, there's variety, but not a ton if it's all one style.

    Then again, if your flagship is lame then this would work well for you. Or if you don't want a flagship, then that could work for your customers too.

    Ultimately though, the discussion on the potential "death to flagships" even if it never happens tells me some brewers are moving from the "let's get people to try craft" phase to the "let's get people to keep drinking craft" phase and that is a mighty good thing!
     
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