Traditional Berlinerweiss (from BA #78)

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by zachary80, Jul 10, 2013.

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  1. zachary80

    zachary80 Initiate (0) Nov 29, 2009 Indiana

    When I was reading "Where's the Berliner Weisse in Berlin?" (p.16) in this month's Beer Advocate I was struck by the mention of the secondary fermentation in the bottle.

    A paraphrase of the basic recipe:
    50% Pilsen 50% wheat malt fermented with an English ale yeast; hops boiled 5 minutes. Once fermentation is complete, add lacto and brett at bottling. Allow 3 months in the bottle for secondary fermentation.

    Seems like with this method, all that would be needed to guarantee no cross-contamination would be an additional bottling bucket and wand. Also seems a little easier for a beginner. Would this be worth pursuing on a small scale for someone who likes sours/berlinerweiss?
     
  2. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    If by small scale you mean you're going to do a one gallon batch, then no. By the time I'm done tasting the beer to make sure it's peaked, I've already gone through a 6 pack. After it's peaked, I'm going to want at least a case left. With the additional cost of the yeast and with the added effort I'd make a full batch. So, if you want to do a gallon, you're more than welcome. I'd say hands off for the better part of a year.

    As for the equipment and bottles, I'd make sure I set them aside and hit them with a 1:10 bleach solution before reusing them for another beer. Rinse well and RDWHAHB.
     
  3. OddNotion

    OddNotion Pooh-Bah (1,915) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    There are multiple ways to make a Berliner but the method mentioned above is not one I would be inclined to try.
     
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  4. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    Don't do it unless you have some majorly thick 750 ml bottles. Asking for bottle bombs, especially if new to the hobby and prone to underattenuated primary fermentations.
     
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  5. OddNotion

    OddNotion Pooh-Bah (1,915) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    One of the primary reasons I would not use this method. The possibility of hyper attenuation of the Brett in a mixed fermentation will surely result in bottle bombs, especially if using a lower attenuating English strain.
     
  6. zachary80

    zachary80 Initiate (0) Nov 29, 2009 Indiana

    What about using 1L Soda Water bottles? Can put them in the fridge when they seem fully firmed up, or otherwise sample frequently then pasteurize by getting the bottles up to 165 (maybe a problem with the plastic?). I've always read though that brett/lacto worked much slower than regular yeast, and at least the simplest sugars should be gone. High risk of bottle bombs certainly seems like a good reason to avoid though
     
  7. reverseapachemaster

    reverseapachemaster Zealot (722) Sep 21, 2012 Texas

    That is probably one of the worst recipes for a BW I have ever read. BW doesn't need brett and adding both lacto and brett in the bottle is asking for explosive bottles, especially since you have no idea what is being carried into those bottles from the underhopped beer.

    If you want to make a BW it would be far more rewarding (and quicker) to invoke a sour mash/sour wort. You could also just douse the beer in lactic acid at bottling. Of course, you could do the same sour mash or sour wort process on virtually any beer style to get a tart version of a beer. Once you've made a few easier sours with shorter turn around time you can decide whether you want to commit to year plus souring.
     
  8. reverseapachemaster

    reverseapachemaster Zealot (722) Sep 21, 2012 Texas

    Brett yes, lacto no. Lactobacillus works fairly fast, especially if it doesn't have to compete with sacc for simple sugars.
     
  9. jae

    jae Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2010 Washington

    I've done two different types of BW:

    1) Sour mash -- BIAB, mashed 50/50 wheat and 2-row around 150 for 60 mins. Added 0.5# unmilled 2-row (FLUSH WELL WITH CO2 to keep aerobes at bay) and kept in the 110s for ~ 3 days. Boiled 15 minutes with low alpha german hops. Pitched US-05 and fermented about a week. Always light and very tart, lemony, kind of one-dimensional . . . very nice with flavorings (dry hops (american citrus), fruit (any), flowers (hibiscus)). You can drink this off a keg in ~ 1 week.

    Pros: quick, sterile
    Cons: less depth of flavor

    2) Regular -- Mash hopped, decocted, no boil. Made Lacto starter beforehand in apple juice. Pitch entire Lacto starter with US-05. Secondary with Brett culture and multiple bottle dregs. Split into plain and fruit. Took ~ 6 months to get suffficiently sour. Now nice and complex, slightly less tart than sour mash. The fruited portion (apricots) is very nice.

    Pros: tasty, rady sooner than other "tradtional sours"
    Cons: Need dedicated plastics
     
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