German craft beer

Well sure, but I am an American and I have an American mindset. Ask Stahlsturm if he'd prefer to drink beer made at his local brewhouse or go to a store and buy beer that's been shipped to him from Düsseldorf and see what he says (I'm guessing I "no" what he'll say). Again, it's hard to explain to an American (and maybe I'm just wrong about this), but I don't get the impression that the four places I mentioned have any desire to service anyone besides their specific community. Why go through all that trouble to make beer for people who have no interest in drinking alts?

Also, and just as an aside, I realize you were using it only as an example but I really hate the nonsense on the Stone labels.

 

The concept of distribution is kind of a funny one over here. It seems that no matter where you live here in the states, you tend to always wish that x, x, and x would distribute to your area. I've been guilty of it, too. Having seen many (good) beers languishing on a shelf because people are flocking to the latest new distro is a little irritating.
At the same time, I do think there's a little bit of a grassroots movement for drinking at your local brewery and reveling in the differences in drinking in different cities. That really only holds water if your local breweries are good...which luckily in my area many tend to be.
I enjoy going to new areas and sampling the local fare, although I guess if you don't/can't travel that becomes more of a headache.

 

“Ask Stahlsturm if he'd prefer to drink beer made at his local brewhouse or go to a store and buy beer that's been shipped to him from Düsseldorf and see what he says (I'm guessing I "no" what he'll say).” I would also guess that he would say “no” as well. I have two comments associated with that guessed answer of “no”:

· It is his choice to drink only locally brewed beer. There is indeed something to be said for drinking local. I like to drink beer from my local breweries and brewpubs: Victory, Sly Fox, Stoudt’s, Weyerbacher, Neshaminy Creek, Iron Hill, Manayunk, Triumph, etc.

· Wouldn’t he like the option to drink non-locally brewed beers from time to time? While I enjoy drinking my locally brewed beers I also like to drink beers from Russian River, Firestone Walker, Bell’s, and imported beers as well.

I went to dinner Saturday at a local beer bar and I ordered: Monchshof Kellerbrau, Russian River Pliny the Elder and with my mussels I had Greenjack Trawler Boy (a British Best Bitter) that was served on cask.

It would appear, based upon the comment of “ …stop trying to sample beer from 5 continents in one afternoon”, that Stahlsturm would think that drinking a German brewed Kellerbier, a US brewed DIPA and an English brewed cask Bitter Ale at one sitting is not the proper thing to do?

Maybe Germans do not ‘believe’ in freedom of choice?

Cheers!

 

Or, instead of purchasing a potentially old bottle in a Bier Shop, wouldn't you prefer to walk to your "local version" of Zum Uerige and get it straight from the cask? For what it would cost the large majority of these small, regional breweries to set up effective bottling, kegging, and production systems; establish nationwide distribution channels; and pay an entirely new workforce to market to, sell to, and maintain relationships with new retail outlets, these traditional taverns could simply open franchises throughout the country with the same "authentic" look and feel (to please those stubborn German traditionalists) and sell bottles and rarities to please...American tourists/expats (?). Now that's true American "freedom" and "innovation!"

 

That reminds me so much of Hawkeye Pierce's American Dream rant that it brought a tear to my eye and a chuckle to my lips.

 

In Colorado you can purchase non-local beers from Anchorage, Deschutes, Firestone Walker, Jolly Pumpkin, Victory, etc. plus I am sure lots of imported beers. Don’t you purchase those beers for your in state drinking pleasure? Or do you only drink Firestone Walkers (for example) when you travel to California?

Cheers!

 

Of those, I tend to really only buy Firestone Walker regularly...but I do get the point
The caveat is that we have a whole lot of beer going bad on the shelves because people want something one minute and it's uncool the next. Victory is definitely one of those around here. When we got Victory in CO back in 2005 - it was a pretty big deal and their stuff sold like hotcakes. Now I don't think I can remember the last time I saw someone buy HopDevil or Storm King. Golden Monkey moves on draft, but not many places carry it. Those beers are still great, but they aren't cool anymore. It wouldn't shock me to see Victory pull out of here just like a few others have done. It's dumb to say, but we have a glut of good beer, so people tend to flock to what's new or what's fresh. Then price and hype become a factor.
That's really been been pretty big in the last 3-4 years, too. I'd hate to imagine breweries that have been around for 50-100 years expanding their distribution only to find that they aren't cool in 5 years and end up suffering. While Victory can afford to do that, and I'm sure they know their bottom line - I'm not sure everyone can or will.

I still think the craft beer world in America runs the risk of imploding. The tiny places popping up with no business plans and mediocre beer will certainly be one casualty, but I'm thinking the medium sized breweries that got too big too fast might also be in there. I used to think those places that started pulling out of areas were in trouble, but many are doing better than ever thanks to being able to better supply their local markets, keep prices down, and guarantee availability to their core...rather than letting their beers grow old on a shelf where people don't really even remember who they are.

 

Jack you live in the Cradle of Liberty. No doubt your belief in freedom of choice, as with all Philadelphians, is higher than the average human's. So I can get Swiss Cheese on that cheese steak, right....?

 

If you have a Trinkgut in your area, you might at least get an Uerige. They always carry it here, they are from Krefeld, so their Kölsch and Alt is within range.

 

“So I can get Swiss Cheese on that cheese steak, right....?” I have had Swiss cheese on cheesesteaks (it is one word by the way) a couple of times. While I am a big fan of Swiss cheese (it is my preferred cheese for sandwiches and I buy it every week when I shop at the supermarket) I do not recommend it for a cheesesteak. For some reason, Swiss cheese does not ‘fit’ correctly with a cheesesteak. The three primary choices of cheese for a cheesesteak are American cheese, Provolone and Cheese Wiz. I prefer provolone; IMHO that cheese is the best ‘fit; for a cheesesteak.

Cheers!

 

I found this recipe for cheesesteak in Germany. It is an authentic interpretation of a Philly Cheesesteak.


http://fuetterungszeit.blogspot.com/2011/10/cheesesteak-sandwich.html

 

Thank you for your reply. I was pretty sure that you purchased beers in Colorado that was not brewed in Colorado but I thought it would be prudent to find out from you.

I must live in a more ‘dynamic’ beer market than you. There is indeed a lot of craft beer (with new breweries entering all the time) in the Philly area. I don’t doubt that at some point there may be a ‘saturation effect’ but for now I am able to buy the beers that I like to buy with little worry about them being too old (the exception to that is imported beers like beer from Germany).

I do recognize that there is the potential for beers which are not the ‘latest and greatest’ to potentially sit for too long on shelves but that has not occurred yet in the Philly area (or at least not in the beer store that I frequent).

As regards the statement of “I still think the craft beer world in America runs the risk of imploding”, I have seen posts (and articles) discussing this but because of my personal experiences this seems ‘alarmist’ to me. I am of the opinion that the overall craft beer market in the US still has a fair amount of ‘head room’. My guess (and it is only a guess) is that the overall US beer market for craft beer can reach something like 15% (by volume) of the beer market in the near term (the next 10 years or so). Since the US craft market is less than 10% (by volume) presently there is still a lot of beer to be sold (in my opinion). It may be that the majority of the growth will be local in nature but that still means a lot of growth for non-local beers as well.

While I do not wish any new brewery (whether it is a small brewery with a poor business plan or a medium brewery that has grown ‘too fast’) ill will, the reality is that in a free market economy those breweries who make business mistakes (e.g., brew poor quality beers, did not manage their growth properly, etc.) will run the risk of going out of business. The only assurance of continuity is to properly satisfy customers.

I am of the opinion that there are plenty of craft breweries in existence (and new ones yet to be started) that will learn how to provide US beer drinkers the beers that they want to drink. We really live at a great time for us beer drinkers that like to drink quality beer. I really think that in the near future it will only get better: more choices of quality beer to drink.

Hopefully things will get ‘better’ for the German beer drinkers as well. It is the German beer drinkers (consumers) and the German beer industry (e.g., Pax Brau, Braufactum, Berlin Bier Shop, etc.) which will decide how that beer market ‘evolves’ over the next 10 years and beyond.

Cheers!

 

Actually it has nothing to do with "freedom of choice" and everything to do with the Germans' belief that if you don't stick to one brand and one style per session you will end up with a headache the next day. We haven't even begun to scratch the surface of German idiosyncrasies here....

 

I've never seen a cheesesteak served on a ciabatta roll. Born and raised..

 

"Cheesesteak" always gives me the spelling error squiggly line so I make it two words for my own sanity. Anyway, what you are saying is a little disingenuous. It's not that Swiss is "not recommended" for a cheesesteak, Swiss is not available for a cheesesteak, at least nowhere in Philly that I've ever been, and believe me I've had my share of cheesesteaks in Philly. Do you remember the famous faux pas of John Kerry ordering a steak with Swiss Cheese from Pat's (or was it Geno's)? I do, it made all the local news.

Also not offered in Philly are Pepperjack, Gouda, Gorgonzola or crumbled Brie. I have seen such things in Seattle (ok, not the Brie). Philadelphians must hate freedom of choice!

The cheesesteak thing, although admittedly written a little past my bedtime, I think still holds as a very specific and odd but somewhat valid analogy for the beer scene here in Germany (don't delete thread!!!). I can make a cheesesteak using morel mushrooms, rabbit meat instead of beef, an Emmantaler/Gruyere blend melted cheese topping, and shallots instead of onions, throw it all on a ciabatta bun and call it "innovation". Who knows, maybe it will be good, but you're never going to get a Philadelphian to buy into it because Philadelphians define their steaks in a very specific way - beef, Wiz/American/Provolone, maybe certain specific toppings.

And it makes about as much sense to a Bavarian to buy beer from Düsseldorf as it does for Jack to run down to Maryland to pick up a cheesesteak.

TL;DR - I need to go back to bed.

 

I wouldn't drink an Alt if you'd put a gun to my head, not while I'm at home. Hell no.

I would drink it if I were in Düsseldorf though. Drink local.

 

Maybe German business owners know their peers and don't believe in wasting their time and money on causes that will only get them ridicule and loss anyways ? Germans aren't exactly known as risk takers, no matter the potential reward.

 

I find that choice of words condescending and insulting.