Threadshitting - A civil discussion…

The real problem is that some people think that basically any reply in a thread is threadshitting, even if it's completely benign. They ride in on their white horses screaming "LET OP TRADE!!!" and just make things worse. So that builds this perception of a problem where there is none and makes some people hesitant to reply even with useful information/advice.

Let's not forget, threadshitting can be useful. Pretty sure I wouldn't have been able to trade for 3 Rares if it weren't for my offer getting shit upon. That's what I really don't get about the reaction to threadshitting, I've seen it help get trades completed way more often than I've seen it torpedo a reasonable trade.

However, I'm not at all convinced that things are worse than they used to be. Things are ALWAYS worse than they used to be...

 

WTF, man? Just let this guy conduct his poll and mind your own business, jerk.

 

As long as personal attacks can be kept off, then I don't mind the comments.

 

I think people should be able to either A) Delete their trade post, or B) Modify the title of trade. That way, once it gets "threadshit" upon, the OP can remove or update their post, instead of letting it cascade into a war over whether or not threadshitting should be allowed.

Either that, or they add in a "This trade is ridiculous" button, and once it gets 40 clicks or something the trade disappears.

Regardless, threadshitting dosen't really bother me, I try not to get involved and only read the trade posts that I personally think I would be interested in. People need to stop wasting their own time reading stupid trade posts and adding to the 6000 responses.

 

I'm not sure there hasn't been a regression of some sort. It seems to me there used to be more new users who'd get into the trading game with the help of a veteran, and there were a lot more posts about learning the ropes.

Part of learning the ropes, then, was beer 'valuation. While there's no true objective value to any given beer, I'd argue there's a pretty nice range for any given release where there used to be a 95-100% hit rate, but I think we're seeing fewer and fewer people who care about that target. Part of the reason behind that strikes me as solipsism. A lot of people only care what they value the beer at (which is usually far too high), and not at what the general consensus is.

 

This is tough though because a lot of people on the internet take comments such as "Your Dark Lord won't land 2 KtGs" as a personal attack. If the people in the forums could go in with the understanding that they might not be offering enough and just accept the advice as simply that then this could work. From what I've seen I will continue to be pessimistic to this end

 

This, and also people keep saying that you should send someone a message and keep it private if you want to comment. But this doesn't help the community, only that one person. I am a super noob, just sent out for my first trade. I have some interest in trading as I gain experience, and I find looking at current ISO:FTs helps me guage what I can offer and what I can expect. If all these replies were done in private, you would have dozens of new people offering preposterous trades, but with the public "threadshitting", they are warned and can see what expectations should be.

So yes, "threadshitting" is necessary, in so far as it goes to educate people. As soon as it gets personal though, it loses its purpose.

Edit: pschul4 has a great point. People need to gain an "internet skin" and realize that saying a trade possibly won't happen isn't a personal attack. If you can't handle that little bit of criticism, you must not get around the internet much lol

 

I'm sorry, but if your ISO/FT is absolutely completely off the mark or ridiculous, I'm going to publicly let you know and I think others should too. Not only does it help you, but it helps the others who stumble into the thread. If it offends you, grow some skin or stop making horrible offers.

 

I'm on the fence. On one hand, I think people should just keep their thoughts to themselves unless it is beneficial or informative to the OP. On the other hand, I think a majority of people who ask for unrealistic trades and try to "mark up" their beer know exactly what they're doing which sets a bad example for everyone. To this I say, let them have it, they deserve to be "shat" upon for what they're trying to do.

Either way, I definitely enjoy the current format of letting people respond compared to locking it down. Overall, I think most BA's are helpful and do provide good insight that is beneficial not only to the OP but anyone else viewing the trade.

 

Well, to stand on my head and piss into the ocean, I'll add my 75 cents. Last week I posted a trade for a BA Behemoth offering 3 Beatifications. It got done quickly, but apparently sparked a lot of controversy because when I looked at the post later there were 9 replies. What the hell, I thought to myself. I read the replies and there were a lot of opinions on why the trade should or shouldn't happen. I printed out a copy and buried it in the ground for future generations to view in the year 2000.

 

Yeah, that's an issue too. I said it in your thread and I'll say it here, if everyone else on BA could react to criticism with half the class you did, threadshitting would almost completely cease to be a problem.

 

People take that as a personal attack? My god. No one has any thick skin anymore. Me calling someone's mother a fat *****, I'd say is a personal attack.

 

The only useful purpose of "threadshitting" is the entertainment factor.

Some people just can't control themselves and click the back button. These inconsiderate assholes get me through the day.

 

It never hurts anyone if a ridiculous offer isn't met. I guess it could be educational for lurkers if someone's offer is getting panned, but all of the negative commentary doesn't really ring true to the spirit of "beer advocacy".

I feel like a lot of the threadshitting is by butthurt people who don't think the newer releases should be worth as much as some of the stuff in their cellar. Like they're trying to influence the marketplace to maintain their cellar's value. It's akin to price fixing.

If a guy wants to trade his Rare or CBS for 3 Beats or a 4-pack of KBS suddenly the trade value of all the other Rares/CBS is somehow less. As such, people with Rare/CBS in their cellar have an incentive to shame not only the guy willing to give up his bottle, but those who offer up KBS or Beat in future trades. That's not what I'd call advocacy, and I think it creates further incentives to mule and hoard.

I'll admit that I was shocked initially by what people were asking/trading for Beat, but at the end of the day it's just beer, and a great one at that. So why shouldn't they ask to trade for other great beers?

Bottom line: I think it's much more constructive when you shoot a private conversation to someone, or better yet, just keep your nose out of other people's business. Just my 2 cents.

 

Yeah, that was a fun thread. Threats of physical violence and all. Good stuff.

 

I think that informative and civil comments can be a really positive contribution to the trading forum as a whole. Posting information about availability including distribution area/method, bottle counts, etc., that the OP may not know is useful to other folks who might be looking for the same beer, which isn't the case if that information is only passed along in a private conversation. It seems like some folks assume that posting that info publicly is intended to embarrass the OP or hurt the trade, when it is genuinely meant to be helpful both to the OP and to other folks. I find it pretty irritating when posts like that get jumped on as threadshitting and treated in the same manner as truly negative or sarcastic posts about the likelihood of the trade getting done.

 

I don't mind the threadshitting as much as I used to. It seems a lot of the people that post in the trading forum don't really research their offers before they post and it shows. Offering an off the shelf, not that highly regarding beer for brewery only releases is not a good offer and is going to get shit on a little. But without any responses, the only thing the person will learn is that that offer didn't work, not how to make a serious offer.

People who have been here should probably focus more on being helpful than insulting these bad offers though. I also think people should do some research before they post here though, so they know if they are in the correct ballpark.

 

AND hilarious!

To answer the question of this thread seriously, I'm all for replies. IMHO, replies like "this probably will not get done" have helped me in the past when I've posted threads that were reaching, but I honestly didn't know any better. I recently pointed out to someone in an ISOFT post that Beatification b1 is likely extinct, and someone pointed out his offer was probably not going to cut it. Constructive criticism/feedback does not equal threadshitting. If you don't want feedback in your ISOFT, say so.

 

Thanks

I think some people think trading is more like buying so they assume that there is an unending supply of rare beers to be traded for and a set price for which something can be traded. Nothing could be further from the truth. As Pahn has said many a time "TRADING IS SUBJECTIVE" not everyone places the same value on their beer and not even everyone places the same value on their own same beer. My first King Henry blew my mind so I had an insanely high value on my other 3 but by the time I got to my 4th I was ready to give it up and it has lead to an amazing trading relationship with GrumpyJunglist.

TL;DR The market dictates trades, not you. Learn to live with that and all will be fine