ONE-OFF Brewery Greatness vs. GREAT BREWERY Regular Offering

Talk Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by colforbin73, Apr 23, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. colforbin73

    colforbin73 Initiate (0) Mar 30, 2010 California

    what i am thinking about here is the sidebar on BA of the "top scorers" for a given style of beer.

    and you see lots of different things which is cool, but i think the fact that the small local brewery who serves a one-off in-house can qualify for over-all rankings against regular producers is somewhat bogus.

    i think we have reached the point where we need "Barrel-per-year" - weighted scoring.

    if you make 10 barrels you don;t get the same Overall on 100 reviews as some brewery that produces 1000 barrels.

    HILL FARMSTEAD (insert other brewery name here), are you so great? or just the only game in town?
     
  2. StarRaptor

    StarRaptor Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2010 California

    Maybe a stronger ranking based on number of reviews would help even things out.
     
  3. harrymel

    harrymel Initiate (0) Dec 15, 2010 Washington

    Meh, don't really care about scores anymore.
     
  4. colforbin73

    colforbin73 Initiate (0) Mar 30, 2010 California


    yeah but. you probably do.

    i am not talking about scores so much as you don't just start comparing any old piece of writing to shakespeare or hemingway... or updike or brezsney or bourdain.

    there should be an OVER/UNDER on reviews, based on quantity produced and scope of distribution. if you produce significantly more and distribute to a bigger population, your reviews should be weighted differently than the brewer that produces a small quantity and only distributes locally.

    we have a system where the brewer with a thousand dedicated local customers can crush a brewery that is providing quality beer to a million or more people.

    it is somewhat absurd. it is like looking at the baseball stats and seeing minor leaguers being compared to major leaguers. does not compute.
     
  5. Agold

    Agold Maven (1,287) Mar 13, 2010 Pennsylvania

    I think this is not a valid comparison. A brewer's capacity should not be taken as an indicator of it's quality, but whether a player is in the minors or majors most definitely should. A small brewery can make a small amount of a world class beer, and many do. A huge brewery can satisfy millions with a product that is great, but not unique or exceptional in any way. Judge the beer on it's merits and everything should work out.
     
    libbey and WillCarrera like this.
  6. lucas1801

    lucas1801 Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2012 Massachusetts

    How much HF have you had? Sean is brewing top notch beer no doubt especially in the IPA style. Should everything he brews be in the top 100? No, that is rep that will even out over time. But Galaxy should actually be ranked higher IMO, so maybe too many IPA's from HF has kept it the best from going top 10. Also Lawson's Double Sunshine should be up there as well, damn small VT brewers have it working right now.
     
    BlackBelt5112203 likes this.
  7. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam


    I'd suggest it isn't really needed because it is already built into the lists now. The Top Beers lists include Popular (which requires only 10 reviews to make it onto the list) and the Beers of Fame which require 1000 reviews to make it onto the list.

    A beer that makes it onto the Popular list will do just that, become popular, as it does so it will get widely sought after. If the non-locals agree with the locals that the beer has proved its worth, then it is will not stay on the list just because of a possible local bias. This allows a relatively unknown brewery making good beers to become widely known and increase the likeklihood of its success both in and outside of its local area. If the beer does not prove its worth as more non-locals review it, the beer will fall from the list fairly quickly.

    However, a Beer of Fame has stood the test of a combination of time, widespread distribution, and lots of barrels produced because it has been made in a reasonable comgination of large enough quantities over a long enough time and been sampled over wide enough territory to proove its worth to a very large number of reviewers.
     
  8. woosterbill

    woosterbill Pooh-Bah (2,807) Apr 6, 2009 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    If size is all that matters, then Bud Light is obviously the best beer in the world.
     
    MarkIntihar likes this.
  9. UncleJimbo

    UncleJimbo Grand Pooh-Bah (3,771) Sep 11, 2002 Massachusetts
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    This was the reason that minimums were instituted for getting into the Top 100 lists. The minimum was 100 reviews at one time, but people complained because it was hard for smaller brewers to break into the list, and also because the list became too static. The minimum is now 10 reviews. Personally I think this is too low, but it does make the lists more dynamic.
     
  10. colforbin73

    colforbin73 Initiate (0) Mar 30, 2010 California


    i agree, 10 seems way too low.

    the way the TOP 10 list is now, the style sidebar, you often just see a bunch of beers you will never be able to buy, unless you live in michigan, etc. it peaks people's interest and maybe people start trading to try some of these top brews -- but it is not really practical.

    i DO NOT want a list of Lagunitas, Victory, Deschutes, Rogue and other widely distributed breweries -- but we just have lists of relative obscurities.

    must trade for top beers, must get hard-to-find beers, must have beer from michigan, give me new glaurus or give me death.... wisconsin, cigar city, hill farmstead, mecca

    no no, you missed the point, size IS all that matters that's why the top 10s are dominated by super small hard to find locals only brews.... you only need 10 friends to love you and you are tops!




     
  11. woosterbill

    woosterbill Pooh-Bah (2,807) Apr 6, 2009 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    Actually, that's not entirely accurate. If you look at the actual weighting formula, even 10 perfect reviews won't get a beer any higher than a 4.33 weighted score, which could be no higher than 88 on the current Popular list. And no beer gets all perfect scores, so if it did happen the Bros would nuke all those reviews for being obvious attempts at artificial hype generation.

    The fact is, craft beer is an artisanal product that often (certainly not always, but quite often) benefits from the obsession and intense supervision of a single talented brewer. The most special beers are often the products of the most careful hand-crafting, and just aren't replicable on a larger scale that would allow for mass distribution. Cantillon Blabaer wouldn't be the top-rated Lambic on the site if it were brewed in a bigger brewery with a bigger batch of necessarily lower-quality blueberries. Some beers can scale, some simply can't.

    The question remains, why are you so offended by local, hard-to-find beer showing up on the lists? How does that hurt you? Rather than complain about amazing small-batch beers getting recognition, perhaps you should reevaluate the amount of stock you place in website rankings. Just because a beer shows up on a BA Top 10 list doesn't mean that you're duty bound to track it down. Beers aren't Pokemon - you're under no obligation to catch them all.
     
    Etan and DSlim71 like this.
  12. colforbin73

    colforbin73 Initiate (0) Mar 30, 2010 California

    hi wooster bill. never mind me - i am not offended by local brews. i like them. but i only live near a few. goodnight sir.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.