Counterflow Coil vs. Plate Chiller

shirron?

 

I love the hop rocket for this purpose.

Kettle -> pump -> Hop Rocket -> Plate chiller.

The theory is that hot wort basically strips "volitiles" from hops in the hop back. Those compounds are then condensed into the wort by the chiller. Excellent method of adding hop aroma and flavor. Hops also acts as a filter medium for removing trub and hops from the boil. I have considered trying another one "post chiller" to remove cold break material, but I don't know how effective that would be.

 

Brazetek:

http://www.brazetek.com/3-x-8-inch-...-copper-brazed-plate-heat-exchangers-chillers

 

wow these are a lot cheaper and seemingly the only difference is the lack of a mounting bracket... anyone have experience with these? i am in the market for a plate chiller but there seems to be a lot to learn between the different options

 

I'm one and give mine two thumbs up. I have the 23A - 30 plate chiller. Worked with the owner there who answered all my questions quickly.

 

that what i hear...great product and exceptional service. thanks man. I have to look into these fittings though, and how i'll have to adjust my system.

 

There is an article in Zymurgy's latest issue comparing the three different types of chillers. Only skimmed it but it looked like they had a graph showing how fast each would chill at different water temps.

Edit: I think the plate chiller was the fastest but don't quote me on that.

 

For this type of chiller, what size do you guys use for ten gallons?

I haven't decided for sure which way to go yet on my new system, reading threads like this one for info on the matter. I already have sufficient copper to go with a coil system, but I'm not so attached to this copper that I would forego a clearly better option. The overall design hasn't be finalized yet, but I'm close to the "buying hardware" phase. I've got my old thread with all those great links saved and ready to go! It should be cool enough soon to where I don't despise being outdoors, and I'll finally get this done.

Were I to go with plate chiller, I am not opposed to spending the extra money and getting the biggest one, but wouldn't do so if it wasn't worth the extra cost. The difference in cost seems moderate ($89 for a 10-plate chiller, $149 for a 50 plate chiller). However, I'm not sure of the difference. Is a 50 plate chiller five times better/more efficient than a 10 plate chiller? Would 50 plates be overkill, or would 10 plates be too small?

 

I don't think the relative number of extra plates equate linearly with increases in cooling efficiency, but the more plates, the more surface area of wort in contact with cold water, so theoretically they should help to a point (Maybe a hyperbolic fit as plates increase you get closer and closer to an asymptote of the curve). The longer form factor (similar to the shirron) also provides additional surface area relative to more compact chillers (Therminator; which I have), but given both the form factor and number of plates your cooling time is still limited to the overall temperature differential between the water and wort. I think you'd be fine with a 10 or 20 plate chiller, but if the difference is $60 between smallest and largest, I'm always inclined to go bigger. The only downside is if your water is really cold, you may over chill with a larger chiller, but truthfully, given that you're in Texas I wouldn't worry about it (SoCal water is pretty warm and I tend to only over chill slightly ca. 60 F in the heart of "winter" down here).

You might be able to ask the company for any chilling data they have on the efficiencies of the different models, or at least look at say DudaDiesel's data on chilling times (wort temp vs. water temp vs. # plates vs. chilling time). Also the Zymurgy article IPAs-for-life mentioned might be worth a look.

 

Actually, not long after I made that post, I checked out the duda page on their plate chillers. They have some good info on performance, which size you might need, etc.

http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=+beer++wort++chiller&i=beerchillers

http://www.dudadiesel.com/files/beerwortchart.pdf

Given that they're really not that expensive, and the fact that my options are essentially a pre-chiller (like I use now) or a plate chiller, I'll probably go with the plate chiller. The fact that I'd need more ice than I currently use kinda breaks the tie. I basically need 20 lbs* of ice for five gallon batches, and I don't have an ice maker at the brewhaus.

*It should be noted that this keeps my beer cold all through the brew day, and is only really consumed when I'm about done for the day anyway. However, texas tap water essentially melts all the ice by the time the beer is at pitching temperature, and that's with running straight tap water when the wort is real hot, and only dumping the ice over the pre-chiller after the wort is down to around 120F.

 

over the length of the heat transfer surface area, yes but not constant ΔT from 190°F down to 70°F. All 3 systems see reduced heat transfer rate as ΔT becomes smaller.

They all have a heat transfer rate proportional to (ΔTin - ΔTout) where ΔT is the difference in the temp of the wort (hot side) and the temp of the coolant/ice water/tap water (cold side). In refers to entering the heat exchanger and out refers to exiting the heat exchanger. The advantage of the counterflow chiller is that it is the only design that can have a hotter cold side (tapwater) output than the hot side output (wort). To take that to the extreme, with a long enough cfc you could get a 190°F wort down to 55°F in one pass while the tapwater is coming out is probably well above 150°F allowing you to pitch yeast immediately without waiting for the entire batch (immersion) to cool or needing to mix the wort back in until an acceptable temperature is met.

Granted if you're talking a difference of 5-10 minutes I'll save 100 bones.

 

For you plate chiller guys, are you using a March/Chugger pump or are you using a gravity feed?

I received a duda diesel 30 plate chiller from the wife for Christmas but haven't used it yet because I haven't had the extra cash to purchase a pump. Is one truly needed for it to work effectively?

 

My simple gravity fed counterflow chiller is entering its 31st year of use and it has been really great...quick connects make it easy to set up and use, use, it's easy to clean after use, and it gets 5 gal of hot wort ready to pitch in around 15 minutes (maybe just a tad longer during the summer months when my tap water doesn't run icy cold).

 

i've never tried it without a pump so can't comment...but i know people that use a therminator with a gravity feed without issues. You would definitely want a good pre-chiller filter system if going gravity because debris is what would cause issues.

Getting a pump kinda sucks because you need disconnects of some sort as well, but end of the day it so nice...

 

sorry man, trying to figure out what you're trying to say...but think overall we're about on the same page. Think you're more talking along the length of the tubing where I'm talking overall...(?)
Where I'm struggling is that I don't quite equate counter flow systems to immersion chiller as the same system. I think of counter flow (& plate) chillers as a static delta T since both wort temp in and wort temp out as well as chilling water temp in and chilling water temp out should not really change during the knockout process...delta T doesn't change. While immersion chillers, the wort's temp is on an inverse curve so delta T rides that curve.

 

Between my bazooka tube and hop spider, not too worried about filtration.

Thanks

 

I was happy with my plate chiller...till the day it clogged..and listen to all these special cleaning tips for the plate chillers...they work but are a pain in the arse...IC chiller is the way to go...KISS

 

I brewed for my first time yesterday and the smoothest part was the plate chiller operation. It brought the wort temp from 212 to 72 degrees in 5 minutes. I used a hop strainer, but yea it's a pain to clean

 

I believe the point is that both have a variable delta T. With the plate chiller the delta happens across the plate as you pass the wort over it and with the immersion chiller it happens gradually as it cools.