Threadshitting - A civil discussion…

This pretty much sums it up and I think a lot of the "threadshitting" tends to be a poorly worded attempt at educating the OP of that ISO:FT.

 

Personally, I like having people comment on my trade posts, that way I can figure out if it's off and adjust the offer as needed. I really fail to see how pointing out an offer is ridiculous is thread shitting.

If someone posts something ridiculous like ISO: Wooden Hell FT: CBS + KH, I consider this to be Forum Shitting (seriously, why is it wrong to post comments in stupid threads, but it's perfectly okay to post stupid threads?) and as such, I think it should be open to pretty much any commentary that people see fit, as long as it's about the trade, and not the person. I'm perfectly fine with someone saying my trade is stupid, especially if it is, but it's a completely different issue if you call me stupid because I didn't know the value of something. I think most people feel the same.

Either way, I see two good ways to resolve this.

Either:

• Split the ISO/FT forum in half, 1 half that allows comments and it's more or less un-moderated (within reason), and another separate forum where replies aren't allowed at all.
• Allow users to lock their own threads. If you don't want comments in your thread, lock it. Simple as that.

Right now I think the level of moderation, and the degree of stuff that is considered "thread shitting" is pretty crazy.

To me there is a pretty distinct line:

Threadshitting:

​

"This is a stupid trade."​

Not Threadshitting:

"I'm not sure if you are going to be able to make this work without adding because blah blah blah..."​

If you can rationally explain something, I consider it to be a valid comment.

Anyways...

TL;DR

 

Did you just tell the truth in an online forum? I thought that was against the rules..

 

Let's face it the days of people sending beer and thinking of people enjoying what they sent are over.

Actually, no they aren't.

Those days are still here, strongly. I trade beer with people like that constantly. I have just sent out beers I love to drink, and my favorite thing in these trades is gonna be thinking about the people to whom I sent them enjoying them like I do. Of course I am going to enjoy getting what's sent, and share the beers I get, too, with my fine beer loving friends. And of course I am going to enjoy drinking them!

What does this have to do with threadshitting? The forum lately has been more like a stock exchange than a beer enjoyment club. New traders are given the idea, especially when the forum was post only, that the idea of trading is to see how much value you can get by trading a beer, so you can collect it, and have it, and think about it, and think about one day trading it up for even better, or selling it on ebay. Many noobs don't know, but ebayers got flamed mercilessly on the forum back in the day, flamed righteously, and with impunity. How could they, those who would say it on the forum are threadshitters? For the same reason they don't know that trying to score a profit from a trade is looked down upon. The value of the beer's bottle count is paid more attention than the beer's only real value, its artistically excellent taste, smell, and look, this is the attitude seems like the norm now.

Right here folks worry about what someone comments in a thread. Often the discussions devolve into anger. But let's get a handle on what the anger says about all of us. Beer is something we love to use, not to have. This is something we crave to experience in its highest artistry, it's not an investment. If we can get back to this, no one will want to threadshit, and those who get "shit" on won't care more than the instant of time it takes to press a report button.

 

I pretty much jumped right into the scene a couple months ago, but set out with one goal in mind for my first trade...find a respected "trade veteran" and offer up the best box I could put together. My hopes were to find a person possibly willing to offer advice if needed (during my first trade and others) and a future regular partner. Just so turns out Retail1LO was that member and he very graciously helped me through a couple of hurdles during my first few trades.

Now, I don't expect "vets" to offer this service to every noob that comes around; however, guiding just one newbie through the ropes their first time and possibly helping them "learn the trade" could be advantageous to both parties and the community as a whole. Hopefully, one day I will be able to repay the community and pass along the knowledge I've acquired to a new trader. All that said, it's up to the new traders (such as myself) to take that first step initiative and offer up the best trade you can possibly afford (extras, not just the agreed upon proposal).

Maybe not a viable option as it's putting the initiative on new traders, but it's a strategy that greatly benefitted my introducution into this community and trading experiences thus far (both good and bad).

 

Yeah, because all these people are strong-arming me into trades. I didn't WANT to trade my Rare for a 6er of two hearted, but he MADE ME!!!!!

/what is market value? Do you have a formula? Do tell.

 

I vow never to make a trade, this day forward, with any one who uses the term "market value" to describe a beer.

 

I don't really know what you're trying to say. Even if the "threadshitters" are doing what they're accused of, I don't see why it's a big deal. No one strong-arms someone into giving up more or less just because of a threadshitter either.

Of course there's no explicitly formula for market value. But that cuts both ways, and there's conduct on both sides impacting perceptions. Don't be a smartass.

 

In reality, there probably is a formula, or at least a pattern, but it's on such a macro scale that we would never see it.

But in general I would say "market value" is what a certain beer is regularly trading for. So like recently I saw quite a few Rare's trading for 3-4 Beatifications. So if someone offered 2 Beatifications for a Rare, I would say that is below the average trading value, and 5 would be over.

But it's not a really reliable number because it will fluctuate and is totally based on personal taste and depth of cellar and yada yada.

If you watch the forums pretty steadily, then you can definitely notice trades which are happening frequently. So if you really wanted to, I suppose you could call that "Market Value"

 

I'm not sure to what degree this is a joke, but that's what this whole damn thread is about: people threadshitting to alter the "market value" over their beer, with that market being the trading market.

 

but I am!

My point is - and I didn't really do a good job of explaining it- that 'overvalued' FT/ISO threads are not a concern- ignore them and don't trade with people you don't want to and they'll never concern you.

Threadshitting, though, is a concern- mainly because 'I don't know if this'll get done' doesn't help anyone. Sure, you may not want to trade for it, but that doesn't mean one of the thousands of other active traders don't. I still don't see the 'plusses' of threadshitting.

I brought up a formula for market value because you seem to believe that 'market value' is real. I don't think it is, really. The 'market' is too tiny, variable, and easily manipulated/subjective to pin anything down. Referring to 'market value' as an actual metric is laughable.

 

What's more annoying that threadshitters are the market players. What's my beer worth? What does it take? Was this a good deal? Should I do this trade? What hand should I wipe with today? What would you trade for this beer? Where are my keys? Is this beer a whale yet?

Aren't we all adults? Can't you guys just trade beer you have for beer you want? The whole concept of market value is over used. Most beer is worth what you paid for it. If you can remember the price of the beer, you can probably trade it. Most beers aren't rare or whales. I don't mind that some try to get more for their beers, but shit guys, do we need a thread about every beer and it's ******ed value? It's a damn beer. If you don't know what it's worth, then you probably shouldn't be trading. Stop asking what the beer is worth. Make up your own damn mind about what beer you want for the beer your offering.

/end threadshit.

 

I think you've been around this site long enough to know the answer to this question is "no"

I do agree with your point though. The only "value" thread I have posted was after I put up a FT a couple times and got crickets for a beer that doesn't seem to get traded often, mostly because I had no idea if my offer was way off or not.

 

Thread "shitting" is necessary. Newbs don't understand anything about the learning curve of the site. This is exacerbated by there being a split between the forum and the rest of the site. Also, opportunists who are trying to milk people need to be called out. They simply don't understand the community aspect. This is beer advocate, not personal gain advocate.

 

But many of the [experienced] traders seem to get upset at all of the "ridiculous" FT:ISOs "clogging up" the boards. It seems to me that, to have it as you described in that post, you would have to accept that there will be a lot of threads looking for deals that simply aren't going to happen.

I tend to think that we should just live with it and pass over the threads we're not interested in, but I've never traded, so I can't speak from experience there.

 

Also, beer costs money, and money is a limited commodity -- very limited, for some of us.

If someone is going to spend our time and money trading a beer, of which they may have a small supply, I can absolutely understand why they would want to get something fair for it. If and when I start trading, I expect to be someone who gets a kick from throwing in awesome extras (especially so if/when I graduate and actually have a job --> money --> cool beers). But it's a little much to think that people shouldn't try and get something fair, as opposed to just a beer for a beer.

 

My gripe about all the trade value threads is that they tend to bleed into actual ISO's as threadshits. That's an issue. If a bunch of dumb ISO/FT's are up, who cares, they will get passed up.

Nothing is perfect, but I've only seen the threads get worse Overtime with the introduction of the bullshit "trade value" threads and all the sister threads it's created.

 

I would just like to point out, that I would consider someone who posts 10 threads in ISO:FT slowly increasing their offer a Market Player way more than someone who makes a thread to get a general idea what it will take to get a beer and then makes that 1 post and get's their deal done.

I fail to see what's so wrong about asking about past trades of a beer to get a general range of things that have gotten a trade done in the past. Not everyone knows everything about every beer. If most beer is worth what you paid for it and nothing else, I would just be on here trading Keystone all day. You can call it whatever you want, but unless you happen to have a good trading partner with a beer you want, let's say Le Bleu, you are probably going to have to offer something on a similar tier/rarity/value/whatever you want to call it/price to get it done. Are there exceptions? Sure. But to pretend like there aren't different tiers is just... irrational.

 

Why can't you just ignore the threadshitting, though? If people are really able to judge for themselves, shouldn't they be able to overlook threadshitting just as much as they can overlook an "'overvalued' FT/ISO" thread?

I'm not sure that either helps anyone, but I can see the argument why threadshitting might.

So, if you don't call it "market value," then what do you call it? Is there not at least a rough going rate for 1 Beat? Can it not be approximated based on which threads turn into successful trades? Maybe you'd give it a different name, but especially for the most popular beers, there is absolutely a "going rate."

 

it seems like most of those threads aren't genuinely asking for information so they can make an offer, but rather to provide another venue to " sell " their previous failed offer via discussion.