Threadshitting - A civil discussion…

I guess you don't have to be a conductor to enjoy a good trainwreck.

 

This, if you see someone that you can guess is actually a newbie at trading from their actions (join dates mean nothing), extend a welcoming hand, offer to help them, show them the lists there are, show them seekabrew, show them what you know that is easy to learn so they can get their bearings right. People here just assume its some asshole...if you can't take the time to find out, don't assume shit. Also if you help them out and you still see them doing idiotic ISOs by all means, call them out and say you tried to help but he's just a douche that doesn't want to learn better vs a newbie that actually doesn't know any better.

I helped out the Pangea guy whose thread got shat all over and I'll bet you'll never see him make such an idiotic post again because he knows where to look for the more desirable beers and breweries now and he knows how to look where a certain brewery distributes. Help the newbies out people, otherwise you can only blame yourselves when this place is full of newbies making idiotic ISO/FT posts time and time again.

 

Ok...so, every time a bottle of Mirror Mirror 2009 comes up for trade, is it necessary that someone comment that it could be infected? Should that be done with every release that's ever been infected? What if I had a bottle that had an off taste? Should I comment? Why not just start a conversation with both parties and have a little private chat? A nice, civil, informative, 3-way conversation. Wouldn't that be better than a public spectacle? I dunno. When I fuck up or don't know something, I find it rather courteous when someone pulls me aside and takes the time to tell me their thoughts on things, rather than blurting them out or even calling me out in public. Threadshitting should be reserved for someone who's BLATANTLY out of his fucking gourd with his requests, and has a habit of such behavior. I mean, if someone exhibits over time they just do NOT have a fucking clue...light 'em the fuck up. I just don't understand why more people are so eager to interject in a public manner when a little more tact could probably do the trick.

 

I wonder if, possibly, the OP would find out the trade wasn't going to happen if he/she posted it...and no one replied with an acceptance of the offer or terms of the search. Why can't that advice be solicited in a BM? Just saying "this trade is probably not going to happen" could deter someone who may have been considering making the trade to think "Oh...I wonder why this guy thinks this won't happen. Am I giving up too much? I'd better reconsider...and try to get more out of my beer." Again...even if you feel "this trade is probably not going to happen" is good advice...why not just shoot him a BM? Where does this deep seeded need to have one's opinion heard by everyone come from? It's like....being a beer vigilante. You could make a series animated public service skits like they used to run at the end of episodes of G.I. Joe. You know....because "Knowing is half the battle!"

 

All good points, all good questions. I would argue that lighting someone up publicly serves less of a public service than pointing out an infected bottle that possibly neither trader nor potential partner knows is infected. I could argue neither has a place in a thread. I could argue neither, or both, of those cases are threadshitting. I could argue any replies except to clarify terms of a trade should be considered threadshitting. I could argue that any replies in a thread are bad for replier because they have the opposite of desired effect of bumping the post to the top, also good for the OP.

I ask questions, don't have the answers. I try not to interfere in posts, but admit I love it when any kind of reply bumps me, good reply or bad it puts me to the top of page one. No bad publicity isn't that the expression? I will leave it to others to answer any of these many questions. My only comment is that this thread so far has answered almost none of them.

 

That's why there should be a benchmark...opinions should be sent via BM, they are just that, opinions, not facts. Facts like there are a staggering amount of bottles of that beer that are infected should be comments, that way the op and everyone involved knows. Some people like trading for certain infected beers, its not always a bad thing but it is something that should be stated if the OP didn't state it. Of course, I heard from my cousin's brother's uncle that this one is infected is bullshit. It has to be a beer that is known to be infected that the brewery has acknowledged they fucked up or the majority of reviews show they did.

There is also a list of the infected beers somewhere but I can't find the bookmark and don't remember where to find it but yea, that's another resource newbies can use...

 

I admit too, I don't mind my thread being bumped. However, I always express that people reply via BM. Most do. Now, that does prevent my thread from being bumped, but that's ok. If I had my way, replies wouldn't bump threads. in fact...if that were the case, I'd almost certainly sing at least a slightly different tune about replies. The fact threads get bumped by them is one of my greatest sources of irritation. When you threadshit, and keep bumping that thread up at the expense of other ISO/FT's....that's complete bullshit. I agree there are far more questions than answers...at least ones that fix the problem.

 

See...even if a beer IS infected, isn't there ANY responsibility placed on a trader to know his shit? I mean...there IS a means to look up every friggin' beer on god's green earth. When you're not familiar with a beer, doesn't it make sense to go check it out? You know...see if the beer's rated 68? See if it's infected? Read some reviews? I mean...caveat fuckin' emptor. Again...I'm not sure why it is that we need to insert ourselves into people's interactions with one another like we're making the beer trade equivalent of the citizen's arrest. "I'm writing you a citation. You're doing it wrong."

 

With something that hasn't been around long, sure but how the fuck do you expect a newbie to know 09 abyss is infected when we're already up to 11? Maybe even the newbie traded for it without knowing. You don't see infected beers up FT often and a lot of times they'll mention it in the post and sometimes be looking for another infected beer. If this isn't mentioned then someone could potentially make a trade they'll regret. I'm not saying people have to step in and say so, I'm just saying if they do and they just say hey, just so you know that beer is known to be infected I wouldn't really call it thread shitting. I don't do it personally but I don't think a simple factual statement is like a freaking citizen's arrest that you described. Its not a hey you're doing it wrong, its more like a hey just in case someone (including OP) didn't know...

 

That will resolve the problem of noobs having no idea of "value" and the forums being flooded with "FT: latest-off-the-shelf-somewhat-limited-beer / ISO: sperm-whale"?

 

I don't know if it's that, so much as the people who are going to threadshit often either a) don't really think about it or b) don't give a shit, or at least not enough to participate in a discussion about the potential benefits and drawbacks to allowing replies in the ISO:FT forum. If more of the people who randomly throw comments into ISO:FTs participated in the discussion, I think you'd see a more civil forum as a result. But we can't make everyone read it, unfortunately. So in that regard, this whole discussion is kind of irrelevant.

As to your point about just starting a conversation with both sides of a potential trade, that's a nice thought, but how are you supposed to know who has replied to the OP's post? A lot of people don't advertise their trades on their profiles (especially on the new site, for whatever reason), so it would be hard to tell who the OP is trying to trade his potentially infected beer to. I suppose you could send the OP a message to see if he knows about the infection issue, but if he doesn't respond fairly quickly, why not warn everyone who stumbles across the post? Is it fair for the other side if the OP knows about the infection issue but the other trader doesn't?

 

Absolutely not. I would certainly be suspicious of anyone who felt otherwise.

 

How does a newbie know about '09 Abyss to ask for it? And if someone poses an '09 Abyss to him (or any other beer), how about lookin' it up? I mean...I look up EVERY beer I've never heard of. I can google '09 Abyss and come up with reading material galore. I don't even have to restrict myself to this site. The point is, any newbie is bound to be unfamiliar with far more beers than he/she is familiar with. And then, god forbid, there is the Beer Trading/General Help Forum. I mean...why is THAT there. I dunno...ask questions? I mean...there are resources here to be used. They're all over the place. And again, I agree that it's not threadshitting if you step in and say something like "Hey, just so you know, that beer is known to be infected," what are the limits? Do you say it to every beer that ever has a known infection? Do you say it each and every time that beer comes up for trade? Is it like...an automatic addendum that gets added to every ISO/FT for that beer? What about if I have some beer and had an off taste, and feel the need to comment in a post that the last one I had didn't taste so good. You know, just a heads up. At some point, you just gotta let people trade their beer. I know that phrase is cliche and it's ******ed as hell to state it within someone's ISO/FT, but really. Let's let some people get shit done unimpeded, shall we? I just hate the "just in case you didn't know" approach. That's what your parents do. Even when you yourself are an adult. And it's not fun. Threadshitting=parenting for beer traders.

 

I see what you mean, but I think that was part of the point of the OP: that (possibly) less beer is being traded now because of the goofball offers that are seemingly becoming more and more prevalent. Shit may not be getting done as well as it would be if more people were more informed via "constructive treadshitting" since more people would see the information as opposed to just a BM. The goal being that more folks start making more reasonable offers, therefore more deals start getting done.

 

You've been on the site a year and you don't think some users need a little parenting?

 

If you look at the people trading known infected bottles like an '09 Abyss, they're either informed or uninformed. The uninformed are almost always n00bs. The informed are almost never looking for anything great for their potentially infected bottle, or so that's been my experience with the threads that I've read. If you're an experienced trader and someone mentions that on your thread, you either don't care because you're already informed or you are happy that you didn't just try to over-value a known infected beer and pawn it off to someone else.......or you're pissed because some know-it-all just totally screwed up your plan to take advantage of someone.

Censorship = parenting for beer traders.

I've learned a lot by posting/reading/replying in the ISO/FT forums over the last two years.

 

This is hilarious. Do you even read what you type before posting? "******ed" this, "******ed" that....misogynistic comments....F-bombs out the ying-yang. "LOL". You certainly don't sound like any adult that I've ever met.

So yeah...speaking of parenting....

 

These created "values" has taken the fun out of trading for many people, it is not there is some neutral third party setting the "value" ... ebay sales does not help either. It can look pretty ugly from an outsiders view.

 

For me it becomes a problem when there are those that dub themselves the righteous crusader for trade value of one specific beer or brewery (or region for that matter). I've seen one guy constantly comment on FT/ISO for a specific beer.....telling how fair he thinks one trade is and how much he hates threadshitting, but then when he sees a thread making an offer for this beer he deems not to be fair, he shits all over the thread.

Thing is, what it takes noobs a long time to figure out, is that for the most part, trade value is subjective. There is no overriding mathematical formula for determining trade value.