Starting a tiny Brewpub/Craft Beer Bar

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by OldWade, Sep 25, 2013.

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  1. RyanCave

    RyanCave Initiate (0) Apr 13, 2011 Oregon

    There is a bad ass little place outside of Philly called Pinocchio's which is a bottle shop with a small bar and a few taps. The idea behind the beer garden is to draw people in for the selection and drink a beer while you browse. This place is very small as well, probably 250 square feet or less, but it has a great feel to it and with the bottle shop they have a lot of foot traffic..this might be something you could consider upfront so you can draw in the customers, and as you expand you turn it more into a bar with a bottle shop option.

    This is a bit of a different business plan, but if I were in your shoes with such a small place I think I would start there.

    Good luck and good on ya!
     
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  2. Can_has_beer

    Can_has_beer Initiate (0) May 14, 2013 Texas

    You probably won't have room for a kitchen, so why not allow patrons to bring in their own food or allow them to have food delivered?

    One dude said it - absolutely no TV. Since you will have to get to know your customers, this would allow you to interact with them more.

    My favorite craft bar is very small, but I love their Twitter feed the most. They update it every day or two with what beers they currently have on tap. Definitely gets me to go in there more often if I know what they have.

    Good luck!
     
  3. Handle

    Handle Initiate (0) Mar 16, 2009 North Carolina

    I know space is at a premium already, but I would think you would do better to add a bottle shop to it (as was mentioned). That way you broaden your clientele from people who want to enjoy a beer there (which is very small) to folks who might want to grab bottles or growlers to go (which has the potential to be more fruitful).

    Just my thought.
     
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  4. OldWade

    OldWade Initiate (0) Sep 24, 2013 Kentucky

    I appreciate the input already. This is great. I love the beer bottle package idea but it is another license to have to obtain and honestly there is a decently cool little liquor store right around the corner that sells some good stuff. But it is an idea that I like. It is similar to Beer Exchange in Charleston. Very cool area. But that place doesn't have the taps. We do have something similar to what you are stating here but it is a bit away from me.

    Yes, I plan on allowing food to be brought in and/or delivered. That is definitely my plan. I am actually going to work with a few of the places that are right around the corner from me to set some things up. There is a soul food joint, a new pizzeria, and a couple cafes.

    I almost agree with the no TV option. And I've heard it argued here before. But our town is a big college town and I think this would be another draw for someone wanting to catch the game and a great beer or 6(ha!). I've seen it done both ways. But when I want to watch a game and drink good beer I'm obviously not going to the place without the TV.

    I'm contemplating a teenie tiny brewing set up to technically count as a brewery. I like the novelty it ads and I've got the brewer for it. There is a fun little bar on Folly Beach that has a tiny set up. Of course they can't have their beer on tap much because of the size but when it is, it is popular.

    I thank you all for the input.
     
  5. Uniobrew31

    Uniobrew31 Pooh-Bah (1,567) Jan 16, 2012 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I would probably love this place I just dont see it being a big money maker. What the hell give it a shot. by doing all the remodeling yourself you will start out in a good place financially. lower your taps and forget about twelve beers. you dont have the room and sixtels will kill your bottom line. free peanuts and good atmosphere go a long way. good luck!
     
  6. OldWade

    OldWade Initiate (0) Sep 24, 2013 Kentucky

    I know. I asked a guy with a larger space about an hour from me whether 1/6 barrels were a viable option and he said no. But the point I want to make is I'm not in this for the money. If it can break even and help contribute to the community I would be more than happy. If it could fund a trip somewhere to taste great beer in another town every once in a while that would be a bonus.
     
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  7. DougC123

    DougC123 Savant (1,186) Aug 21, 2012 Connecticut

    Not a lot of business owners are in it to break even. My guess is that your revenue per sq ft vs. overhead per sq ft could very well wind up costing you money in the end.
     
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  8. jmw

    jmw Initiate (0) Feb 4, 2009 North Carolina

    I just realized that your thread title did mention 'brewpub', which you've reiterated here. If you are balking at the permit for a bottle shop, you will be amazed and horrified at what it takes to brew beer, then serve it on premises. You do not really have the room for this. And trying to bill yourself as a brewpub and having customers come for that aspect only to find that you 'can't have your beer on tap much because of the size' will smack of false advertising and will alienate them. Calling it a novelty will not go over well either. Stick to homebrewing and leave that part out of the business.

    I have heard this same capitulation argument regarding televisions before, even locally. There is no more rabid college football crowd than the WVU contingent. You have to direct what you want your bar to be. Adding a TV just so that 3 or 4 beer-loving football fans will come to your establishment one day out of the week will not pay off for you when exchanged for the intimacy you would have had with regular customers every other day of the week. But it's your place. If you're the football lover then there's no need to justify it.
     
  9. OldWade

    OldWade Initiate (0) Sep 24, 2013 Kentucky

    While I appreciate that fact Doug, I look at the break even as really a worst case scenario. I've got a phenomenal landlord, low overhead, and easy out clauses. Yes, I'd love to make some good money off this and build it but I'm not solely focused on that. This is partially a prototype for some larger options. My point is that I'm not focused on $$. Yes I know I need to focus $$ for purposes of knowing whether it will pay the bills. But quite a bit of this is speculation. Any service industry is based on what you believe your can sell. So I believe I can sell enough to at least break even. I will begin adding numbers soon. I really didn't expect to get much feedback here so I didn't include too much.
     
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  10. OldWade

    OldWade Initiate (0) Sep 24, 2013 Kentucky

    Good points JMW. The brewing aspect is for testing a larger concept. However, that can initially be done via contract brewing if need be. So I will rethink that one. Initially I only plan on being open Friday/Saturday. And yes, the numbers support breaking even on 8 days of the month. I will readily add dates if I think the demand is there. First going to Thursday.

    The TV option probably won't come within the first month so I could get an idea of what kind of demand there would be for that aspect.
     
  11. jmw

    jmw Initiate (0) Feb 4, 2009 North Carolina

    I would like a piece of this market.
     
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  12. OldWade

    OldWade Initiate (0) Sep 24, 2013 Kentucky

    What's the name of this establishment?
     
  13. jmgrub

    jmgrub Initiate (0) Nov 20, 2010 California

    I'm sitting in my girlfriend's 300 square foot studio apartment and thinking there isn't a chance in hell you could fit 15-25 customers comfortably in here.
     
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  14. OldWade

    OldWade Initiate (0) Sep 24, 2013 Kentucky

    Yes, there is a bathroom. Actually two to accommodate men's and women. Man it seems the bottle idea is hot. I'm assuming you mean individual bottles as the margins on packages isn't very high. At least from what the distributor has shown me. Yes, we actually have a HUGE art show here that I will miss this year. Brings in 250,000 ppl. It is around the corner from me. I was wanting to tie in memorabilia sales for events like this one. I also have an idea to do a tap off between my town and our big rival when they play. Basically 3 of our beers vs. 3 of theirs on tap. Something to build on the fun of the rivalry. But that is an idea that I'd tie into multiple seasonal things that happen around here as you state.
     
  15. OldWade

    OldWade Initiate (0) Sep 24, 2013 Kentucky

    I can fit 17 in there with a 5' clearance aisle between each side of the space. So I thus propose I could possible accommodate more in that area depending on how I use it. And this is adhering to the 2' rule on seating.
     
  16. Can_has_beer

    Can_has_beer Initiate (0) May 14, 2013 Texas

    Name of the bar is Petrol Station. Their Twitter feed is @Petrol_Station
     
  17. OldWade

    OldWade Initiate (0) Sep 24, 2013 Kentucky

    I missed some of the questions or remarks at the top of the thread and will answer those this evening. This is exactly what I wanted. Very good, very thoughtful questions. My original post was hasty as I wanted to get something out to generate feedback. Now that I'm getting it I will begin to more accurately define everything. I will say that it may all pan out that I realize this just isn't as well thought out as I'd have liked and scrap the idea. But I'm not a paralysis by analysis type guy. Like I said before this won't be large. It is small. And most of my costs are very small. I can afford to eat 5k. Do I want to? Hell no. But I can if I want to give this thing a go. And my gut tells me this think will be well received in my area.
     
  18. Eriktheipaman

    Eriktheipaman Pooh-Bah (2,303) Sep 4, 2010 California
    Pooh-Bah

    I wouldn't worry too much about 1/6 barrels. I work for a brewery and am our sole distributor. All we sell is 1/6 and I rarely hear bars complain about them.

    Also I would be careful about joking about people having "one or six beers". I know it doesn't seem like a big deal but ABC can be real sticklers and if you don't have any experience in alcohol sales I would spend a few days looking into the ins and outs for sure. Cover your ass because the ABC can ruin peoples lives for one little mistake. Especially if you're in a college town it will be key to keep an eye on alcohol related problems.
     
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  19. Brownj1288

    Brownj1288 Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2012 Virginia

    Could you share details on your proposed layout and the actual dimensions of the space. I can't see any way you fit that many people in, once you add in a bar, back bar area, bathroom, door clearance, etc, you can't have more than 100-150sq ft left.

    I don't see any way the money works out. I just can't see how you plan to cover overhead, never mind make a profit 8 nights a month. I don't know local laws but even if you stay open until 2 am you are only operating really 24 hours a week (4-2 Friday, 12-2 Saturday) with a max of 17 people, you just don't have enough opportunity to sell beer.

    I don't see how it could work, I love the concept but the economics don't make sense. I look forward to reading more details.
     
  20. socon67

    socon67 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,895) Jun 18, 2010 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    For food I'd look into having food trucks park outside and let them handle that part. You don't want to take on too much early and that will keep customers there. Funky Buddha does this and it works well for them. Can you do growler fills? That may be a better deal than a bottle shop and it gets those kegs turned quickly. I'd strongly recommend contract brewing initially until you refine the bar model. And can you do events on the days when you aren't open? I'm assuming you have a regular job and need to balance the time on this. But maximizing revenue streams with beer-related events would make a lot of sense. Homebrew club meetings, brewery release vents, or something for the tourists "Kentucky Beer Sampling" are easy to implement on those off days and adds sales. In short, get the business plan that works in place and then build onto it.
     
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