How to Properly Address Outrageous Overpricing

You make some strong claims that require equally strong arguements so I'm really interested as to what those might be.

First you say beer is not very expensive to make. Compared to what? How do you know that?

Then you say what beer "should" be about, but there is no way to argue that anything "ought" to be any different than what it actually is, so I'll take that as merely your opinion (one that I happen to share btw )

Then you say strictly for profit businesses are eroding the middle class and widening the wealth gap. I'm curious about strictly for profit businesses, as opposed to loosely for profit businesses? Assuming profit just means you create more value than you consume, how does that widen the wealth gap?

Finally, I'm not sure how Jim Kock being a billionaire could automatically invalidate any and all "beer is too cheap" arguements.

I'm not saying to are wrong on any level, just asking questions.

 

I think that the best option. As long as they are moving their product, I doubt the prices will change.

 

sprinkle some dust on it

 

Not your decision how much margin a business you don't own makes on its products.

 

Good questions and with how short my sentences were I can see why you would pose them. Without trying to get too long winded:

Beer is not expensive to make in a similar sense that bread is not expensive to make. I know quite a few people who home brew, and one will be opening our first nano-brewery in New Orleans soon - so I have an idea as to what the overall costs are. I don't think it even has to be compared to other alcohols, but for the most part it's way easier and cheaper to crank out a good APA than a good red wine. There are many factors and this is very broad, but for the point of discussion I think you know what I mean. As evidenced by many breweries like Deschutes, Boulevard, Founders, etc. Good beer can be put out at a reasonable price point and distributed around the country in a timely fashion meaning there is little spoilage or waste.

Look at a business like Walmart that is strictly for profit and then compare them to Costco. I'm not going to find the exact numbers from a recent article I read, but Walmart employees make about 20,000 per year on average and the "healthcare option" is a mother fucking joke. Costco employees make around $45,000 per year and have access to a great healthcare system that costs them very little especially compared to many of America's larger companies. There needs to be a sense of social altruism in the modern business world, and boy is it lacking maybe at an all time high. Stop being selfish and only caring about the bottom line of maximizing profits. If all you care about is money, you are a sorry individual (entity).

Obviously Jim Kock is not indicative of the entire craft beer community, but I bet Greg Koch and many others are doing just fine while putting out quality products at nice price points. Shouldn't we all be able to have good beer? It's been around forever and people will always drink it, so produce it and make it available to the common person.

 

The build up to the price was amazing.

 

The cost of a glass of beer is not the cost of raw materials. In fact, the raw materials probably make up less than 5% of a glass of beer. Probably closer to 1%

Buildings, buildout of the buildings, brewing equipment, hardware, licenses, inspections, bottling, packaging, breakage, spillage, spoilage, shipping, repairs, legal representation, city permits, health department inspections and code compliance, salaries, wages, insurance, benefits, giveaways, travel, event coordinators, accountants, human resources, OSHA compliance, ADA compliance, office supplies, furniture....

All of those things have to be paid for, either by a loan or, if you're lucky, investors. Both of which are expecting a return on their investment equal to or greater than what they could earn otherwise.

So yes, your home brewing/nano brewing friends can make a keg of beer for about $250 and an afternoon of work. But that's not exactly representative of how things work once you get to production.

Add in to that a three tiered system like we have in Illinois, and it's not unheard of that beer gets marked up 3 times before it get to your cellar. Move out of the city where the beer is brewed and that multiplier goes up even more.

That said, price gouging usually happens at the store level, not the brewer level. If you can easily walk into another store and buy the same beer for less, go do that. If you can't, then you need to make a decision if the opportunity to buy is worth what they're asking.

Thank god we are just beer guys, could you imagine being a bourbon drinker looking for a reasonably priced top tier bourbon? Pappy is going for 700-1500 a bottle, if you can find one. F that.

 

There are already 4 pages outlining the principles of supply and demand so I don't need to get into that. I will add though (not calling out the OP specifically here, this is something I notice regularly) that I am bemused by all the beer drinkers who seem to expect that they should be able to drink the very best of the best beers for affordable prices. Nobody expects to get a top-of-the-line Mercedes for $15,000 but for some reason the most sought after beers should be blue-collar priced. There are going to be good bargains and there are going to be high-end priced beers. That's how the world works. Buy what is worth buying to you.

 

It's a free market system, don't like it don't buy. He can charge anything he wants.

 

I'll be the first to to welcome you to the internet.

 

Wow, this conversation really snow balled. I can practically see the dug in trenches camouflaged with hop vines. Let's take a minute to remember we are all part of a community united under loving beer and that it's just that beer. Some one was kind enough to remind us we live in America. So stop harping on someone for expressing a view or asking a legitimate question. No one is demonizing all shop owners nor is anyone trying to get a group to storm the Bastille, calm down. We are discussing an occurrence that is luckily in the minority.
What has been expressed is the issue of charging way too much for something simply because a person can. Yes money talks, but we don't have to listen quite so much. Everyone wants a good deal on a purchase, so why get a good deal and then whip around and bend others over because, "supply and demand." That's a guideline, not a commandment. Also despite increases in supply, and not so much demand, prices still get jacked up.
The two issues I mainly have with gouging are one; the store owner didn't make, package, transport, or promote the product. The only thing the owner did is buy some and place it on their shelf/cooler. Why should such little work receive so much reward? Founders does not need you to sell KBS for them, or anything of theirs for that matter. It is the brewers' product and they set a price. There is no reason for that price to jump 100% from truck to store (I work at a shop this happens at.) A 4pk cost of under $10 does not deserve a mark up to $39.99. Yes make some money, that's a good thing, but you can abuse it.
The other issue is the same reason I have no respect for ticket scalping; if one only buys to resell and make money off of, that's taking from someone who wants to enjoy it, possibly even share it. The seller didn't want it in the first place, just the money. So why should someone have to pay you their left arm just because you got there first?
There are some things we can do as a community to help curb this:
Self-bottle limit, you buy up 3 of 12 bottles and want more? Go to another store. No one benefits from one person buying the whole stock and not returning until next year, even the store owner will do less business this way. Trade, put it on your birthday wish list, register it as a wedding gift. Don't clean out the neighborhood you don't even live in. If you want to resell, don't gouge yourself. Not going to make enough money to sell? Bloody drink it then.
Refuse high prices, this is subjective so one should shop around, ask, check with friends in other counties. Be prepared to walk away. It sucks but you can do it(yes, I have.)
Report to the brewery and let them make the call. Maybe its too high for you, maybe its not to the brewery.

Don't mean to be so long-winded, but this subject is close to home. I work at a shop that gouges on limited release and one of my teachers owned a shop that never did. Also, if a bunch of beer geeks can't have a civil conversation about a relevant subject...we are fucked as a society.

 

You asked nicely, so I see no reason not to continue this dialogue. First, I never really said you are wrong. You are welcomed to have and express your own opinion, but you have a responsibility to make that opinion an informed one. I'm just going to give you some info...
Gouging is setting a price way higher than the cost, general guideline is around 70% or more. You are right that this is a subjective view, but there is reasoning behind it.
Capitalism is social/economic model practiced by the vast majority of the world. This model outlines what a society does with the money made through commerce. You should look up the definitions on your own, I'm not an expert.
Many of us educate ourselves on what it costs to make a beer, what is costs the brewery to put it out, and what distributors pay for it. We are not pulling figures out of our heads.
You do yourself a disservice by not being an active, informed consumer.
Look...just educate yourself go from there. I did say these are self inflicted wounds and there was only one instance where someone actually used the word "greedy."
Finally, "crybabies." Really?

Happy hunting

 

A) You are still incorrect, you are ignoring "alternative retailers" for the sake of your own argument. Beer is never going to be an appropriate subject for the term price gouging, it is a convenience item and not a necessity. Each purchase depends on two willing parties, no one needs the beer and no one is forced to buy it.

B) Ignore opposing viewpoints if you want but just because they are not what you want to hear does not mean they are not right.

C) This is a public discussion forum, you don't make the rules and people are able to respond in any manner they see fit. This should be an expectation, you are getting awful bent out of shape over something minor.

I love me some hyperbole but you are too serious here. It is much more like "Welcome to Pizza Hut, have some pizza".

You are taking things far too seriously. Snark and sarcasm exists all over the place and is magnified on the internet. This does not limit our ability to communicate with in a community in the least. I am willing to bet that most of us have friends that we are sarcastics assholes to in conversation. The difference is the person receivingthe message knows its all in good fun and responds appropriately. Many of us speak in these forums in the same manner we speak to friends. No need to view every comment in the worst possible context.

Bottom line is people disagree with your need to say something, handle the situation or make things right. Some people feel strongly that this is absolutely wrong. You are not going to pose a question such as this in a public forum and not get response with people telling you how they feel.

 

Given what you say you wanted to learn, next time try an OP something like this:

"Other than shopping somewhere else, have you any good, non-violent strategies for dealing with a store where the beer is overpriced when that store is the only place that carries a beer you want to try."

My prediction is that the thread will be much shorter and you'll not be distracting yourself from finding out what you want to know by arguing with quite so many people.

 

I did read the post. He doesn't like the pricing at a certain bottle shop, and there area few that always seem to be a little higher than others. But it really is simple, it is a free market system, the owner can set his prices as he pleases. You vote with your wallet or purse. I wasn't being flip or glib, I was serious, and I might tell the owner why I'm leaving without buying.

 

A good way to broach the subject without seeming too aggressive is to say "Do you actually sell any of these with the price this high?"

 

Yes, illegal. In PA all beer needs to be sold through the distributor system, and since HT is definitely not shipped to PA, it's illegal.

If the PLCB man stumble across it the store, confiscation and fine.