Visiting Boston (Summer '13 Edition)

I get your point, and it's certainly more than the $1 going rate for 4 oz. samples at brewery taprooms in New Hampshire, but I know the real estate is almost certainly more expensive in Everett. I guess I figure that if a brewery is going to have a taproom and serve pints (or at least servings larger than samplers), then it's really not so different than thinking of it at as a bar. It's different for sure, but at the brewery taprooms I've been to, I've hung it in them as though they were a very laid-back, low-key bar. I think the prices should certainly be no cheaper than they would be at a bar, and ideally they should be a little cheaper for the reasons you mentioned, but I guess I figure once it's a taproom as opposed to a tasting room, then it's a bit closer to a bar. I won't disagree with you about the CBC, which in addition to the best beer, has probably the best prices in town.

 

At least partially because they're a brewpub, and they don't have to pay markup to the other two tiers. NSB doesn't have to pay these markups when they serve beer in their taproom--thus an apt comparison, if I do say so myself. A brewpub is a better metric, not a bar.

Also, turns out the pours are 4oz/11oz, so it's basically $7 for the 14oz you get in a shaker pint. That's 25% more than CBC, and again, it's in Everett, not Kendall Sq. Area Four and Deep Ellum have essentially equivalent prices as the NSB taproom for drafts and bottle, respectively. Honestly, I don't see how the NSB taproom prices could be worse.

 

I am not sure why this is a surprise? Bottles of our beer at our taproom cost the same as they do in liquor stores in Cambridge and other places. Why wouldn't drafts be the same consistent pricing? Does an iphone cost less at apple.com vs bestbuy? Nope, they are the same. Do drafts at Harpoon brewery cost the same as other bars in Boston? Yes. It's standard business. We are a super tiny brewery with an insane amount of manual labor involved in making our beers. We can't compete with prices of Harpoon or others because we have zero economies of scale nor do we have fancy equipment. Even CBC is bigger and produces close to 4 times the amount of beer we make.

Cheers,
Rob

 

Ostensibly this is to appease retailers. Or at least that's the line everyone seems to hide behind when brewery-direct pricing is higher than most retail outlets. I had never heard this concern being expressed with respect to draft prices. Not to mention that just because it's not a surprise doesn't make it good.

This really is meant as constructive feedback, and not a some gripe. I'm trying to articulate why I don't expect a brewery's taproom to charge the same as a restaurant...

As I mentioned in a previous post, a lot of it comes down to how one views a visit to a brewery. If the brewery is just a convenient place to buy beer, then market pricing makes sense. I guess I tend to think that there's more to it. Part of what I'm expecting is hospitality, and charging full-freight, adding surcharges for on-premises consumption, etc, make me feel like just a customer as opposed to a guest. It's difficult to describe because the difference of a dollar here or there makes a bigger difference than just the pure economics of it. Things like the $4-5 on premises surcharge or the vast price difference between growlers and tulips communicate "go away" rather than "come and stay awhile."

I'm long past my kumbaya stage with craft beer, but I still cling to the hope that there's more to the brewer-consumer relationship that just a beer-for-money exchange. When you charge your most passionate customers--the ones who actually schlepped out to visit you in person--more than anyone else (30% more than retailers, and then another 30-100% to drink on premises), as opposed to passing along some of your savings to them...well, it just seems like the "love our fans" thing ends the moment it might possibly impact the bottom line. This isn't limited to NSB--it seems pretty common in the craft beer world. The fact that I can get a pint of Harpoon for less on Cape Cod than at the mothership, despite the fact that both a wholesaler and a restaurant have taken their cut, is equally aggravating.

If you want to make a visit to NSB feel like a visit to apple.com, well, go ahead I guess.

 

It sounds like you are still very much in your "Kumbaya" stage of craft beer. This may be the way you wish breweries would do business with you all the time. But as Rob stated, they have an intense manual labor schedule that their beer needs. I'm sure they would love to stop and chat about the beer, but in reality there most likely isn't enough time. As a brewer, the only thing they owe you is the quality of their product. If you want to sit around the campfire and discuss it, it might be time for a new hobby.

 

I'm not asking for them to chat me up, or give me a tour. I'm just looking for a brewer that puts his money where his mouth is when he says "we love our fans." I make no bones about the fact that such brewers are hard to find.

Anyway, this all started with FLM's comment "Not bad... $2 for 6 oz snifter works out to a $5.33, not shabby by Boston standards at all." Well, a $7/"pint" for something that's low or moderate abv and hasn't been aged is at the absolute top end of Boston prices. And again, this is Everett, not Boston. Regardless of what you think a brewery "should" charge, most of these prices are not cheap, even by Boston standards.

 

I'm not shocked by a brewery than charges something very close to bar prices (though I would probably expect it to be very slightly cheaper).

a bar adds on margin to whatever they pay for the beer b/c they need that profit to pay for their rent, their employees, etc. And guess what - a brewery with a tap room has these exact same expenses! It costs money to operate a tap room and pay people to work there. Even if it's just the brewmaster and owner pouring beers, they still need to be compensated for their time, b/c that same time could be spent doing things far more productive for the business (like making more beer). And that floor space costs money, I'm sure there is other stuff a tiny brewery could do with it

 

NSB has always been expensive. Did you people think they were going to roll out with $2 pints or something?

Comparing their draft prices to places in Boston is funny because I don't know any place in Boston that has them on tap, or at least frequently enough to notice. They are mostly served in the Camberville area.

 

While I do not disagree with your comments at all, allow me to play devil's advocate here for one second.

This was not a service Night Shift offered before yesterday, and they have not removed any services that they previously offered at all (e.g., they have not stopped offering samples because of this, which I fully expected them to do). I can continue to enjoy going to Night Shift just as I always have, with no additional cost or change to my experience (well, maybe there will be more people!).

Now, if I desire to purchase a draft - I can! The customer has been given more options. If they're priced too high, and they don't sell any drafts - they won't, and that will continue to not affect my experience.

Just two cents. Like I said, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here. I understand that even putting those prices up on the board can be a little alienating.

For what it's worth - I drink a lot of Night Shift, and I drink virtually none of it outside of my home, my friends' homes, and samples at Night Shift. They do not make beers which I go to bars in search of. Because of this, I fully expect I will probably buy very few drafts at the brewery. However, I am excited about the opportunity to sample their beers in larger pours at the brewery - especially for something that I can otherwise only get in growlers or in samples too small to appreciate drinkability, etc.!

 

I'll be in Boston this Saturday and would love to grab some bottles to send back that I can't get in Seattle. I'm staying downtown (Back Bay) but I'll have a car so I can go wherever. (I'll actually be in Providence on Thu and Fri.)

I'm not all too familiar with the east coast beer scene, other than the well-hyped breweries, so I'm mostly looking for a shop with knowledgeable employees who'll be able to help me pick out the good stuff. Rather than choosing randomly from the lists here or just choosing the closest one to me, I figured I'd ask the community. Any ideas?

Also, are there any good limited releases making their way around shops right now that I should keep an eye out for?

 

Craft Beer Cellar. They have multiple locations, and are the best bet for what you're looking for.

http://www.craftbeercellar.com/

 

If you can get out to Stoneham, Redstone Liquors. Best selection (IMHO), latest releases and the owner Kamal is an amazing fount of beer knowledge and (if he's not there) hires really sharp staff.
http://www.redstoneliquors.com/
Oh, and their facebook page is like a Christmas toy catalog to a kid. I want! I want!
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Redstone-Liquors/182094326593

 

boston wine exchange which is actually in boston also has a good nightshift selection and as of a few days ago had somerweisse. no need to leave the city for redstones or craft beer cellar

 

Nightshift is a good case in point. I can see Redstone have Nightshift Rose, released this week, because it's splashed across their facebook page, and I can trust that they have a deep selection of the other Nightshift releases. Not knocking BWX (they are certainly convenient if you're downtown, as long as you don't end up having to carry a lot of bottles home on the T). But if I want to make one stop to find beers beyond the standard selection, I go to Redstone.

 

It's no longer Summer, nor 2013 for that matter, but this still seems to be the reference thread for Boston so I thought I'd post my thoughts here.

I've been traveling here for work most weeks since early October, and have tried to hit several of the bars and restaurants on the list. All visits were on a M/T/W night, and in most cases, it was just me, usually arriving between 6:45 and 7:30pm. My thoughts, in no particular order:

jm Curley - I've been here 4 or 5 times. I lucked out the first time where I walked in, the place wasn't packed, and sat right down at the bar. The special burger had braised short ribs on top, and was one of the best burgers I've ever had. Unfortunately I've been unable to replicate the experience, struggling to even get a seat at the bar. Interesting tap selection, and seems to turn over fairly quickly. Bartenders are knowledgeable, very loud inside.

Stoddards - across the street from Curley's, closed on Monday nights. Generally has a cask selection of some sort. You can't get a table unless you're eating, and food food prices are on the higher end for a gastropub (although the duck two ways was excellent). If you want a seat at the bar, it's full, and you're planning and eating (again, food is the key), just ask the hostess for a bar seat. When a slot opens up, they'll save it for you. It seems like Curley's puts new things on tap a few days/week before Stoddards, but Stoddards has a much bigger setup.

Jacob Wirth - went here for the first time tonight, and likely won't go back. They had a fair number (~25-30) of taps, but it wasn't quality stuff for the most part. They're still trying to get rid of some pumpkin beers, and a quick check of BA for other things I hadn't heard of had a lot of sections in the 75-85 pt range. I enjoyed my cask Heavy Seas Loose Cannon and a non-cask Flower Power; food was not spectacular. Very bright room, and I can see it getting very loud.

Meadhall - I've been here three times, twice at the bar and once at a table. They don't take American Express, so be forewarned. Excellent eclectic selection, although my second visit was shortly after their 12 days of Christmas and they hadn't yet swapped out the kegs that had kicked, some days before. This was offset by the relatively decent pricing they had on what did remain, cheaper than their normal pours. Food is very good, service is a mixed bag (it took >5 minutes to flag down a bartender on a night when not every seat at the bar was full)

Cambridge Brewing - I need to go back. I enjoyed myself, but it wasn't overly memorable. Very laid back atmosphere, decent burger, good beer.

Bukowski - Cash only, as many have said. Food is ok, not great. I went twice this Fall, and each time had a different variety of a local single hop IPA (drawing a blank on the name). Even 90 minutes before a Red Sox game I was able to find a seat at the bar.

Yard House - Another place I need to go back, I went here to watch a Tigers/Sox game (the game was in Detroit) during the ALCS and enjoyed being one of the few folks enjoying a rare Tigers win. Extremely varied selection, decent bar food (although nowhere near the Stoddards/Curleys/Meadhall level). Staff was decently knowledgeable, but more focused on volume than directing patrons to the right fit.

Lower Depths - I guess I was expecting a bigger place, but it's pretty small. Another brightly lilt place, decent tap list, ok food. I liked the vibe here better than Yard House, but for beer, I'd go back to Yard House when in the Fenway area.

Salty Pig / Coda - I lump them together because I went on back-to-back nights and found almost identical tap lists at both places. I know they have the same owner, and are only two blocks apart, but I wish they had more variety. I guess that could apply to Boston in general, I wish there was greater variety between bars in terms of what's on tap. Both places have good food, and I actually had my wife check out Quicken to verify that I hit Coda several times one Summer the last time I worked here in 2008. If I were staying in Back Bay I'd visit more often. Salty pig was much busier than Coda.

Tip tap Room - It's over by MGH, and one of the few places in the area. Another place with 20-25 beers on tap, and more than a handful are "different" from other places in town. The first time I snagged a seat at the bar, but the second time all the stools were full so the hostess sat me near the bar. I highly recommend the lamb tips, medium rare.

Overall, I've quite enjoyed my stay so far, I just wish there was greater variety amongst the bars in terms of what's on tap at any one time.

 

If you're still in or traveling to Boston for work, I'd recommend trying our latest newcomer downtown - called Row 34. An excellent new addition to the scene. It's a seafood restaurant with a tap list that rivals the best in town. It should be added to this "Visiting Boston guide". And if you go at the right time, you can sample beers at Trillium brewing right across the street.

 

Next time you're in Cambridge, check out Lord Hobo if you're able.

Also, you don't seem to get to Allston on your visits, but if you do be sure to swing by Deep Ellum.

Food as well as beer are available at both of these lovely joints.

 

you forgot Row 34. a brand new beer bar / raw bar directly across the street from trillium.

 

Are Idle Hands and Night Shift in the same building ? i googled their addresses and they're both at 3 Charlton St. ?

 

it also seems as though Night Shift, Mystic and Idle Hands are all with in a mile and a half from each other?