Hill Farmstead Everett Clone

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by koopa, May 28, 2013.

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  1. Beerpharmer

    Beerpharmer Initiate (0) Apr 22, 2010 New Jersey

    Really looking forward to trying this!
     
    #41 Beerpharmer, Nov 20, 2013
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  2. antlerwrestler19

    antlerwrestler19 Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2010 Nebraska

    I'm planning to do my "Everett Clone" soon....might stray away a bit but the idea will still remain. Also have my daunting King Henry clone to create - not sure how long ago I posted that thread but ya, still haven't taken on that task haha.
     
    #42 antlerwrestler19, Nov 20, 2013
  3. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    After drinking mine, I'd probably recommend something along the lines of

    75% pale
    10% crystal malt (either all c80 or perhaps something more along the lines of telejunkie's mix)
    5% carapils
    5% chocolate malt
    5% roasted barley

    mash around 158F
    wlp002

    35 - 40 ibu's of columbus

    1.087 OG
    1.031 FG
    7.3% abv
     
    #43 koopa, Nov 21, 2013
  4. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    I might be barking up the wrong tree, but I kind of wonder if Hill Farmstead naturally carbonates this beer in the keg via krausening w/ fresh wort to help achieve that extra creamy lush mouthfeel? I know the commercial description of bottled Everett clearly states it is naturally carbonated. I also know that the draft version seems to have just as good of a mouthfeel as well. My version was direct co2 carbonated and I think the mouthfeel, despite nailing the FG and adding a small lactose addition which I'm not convinced that HF does, still lacks the heft and creaminess of the real Everett.

    P.S. I know not everybody buys into the idea that krausening with wort / dme produces a creamier carbonation than by using dextrose. In my own limited personal experience doing so, it indeed has.
     
    #44 koopa, Nov 21, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
    kneary13 likes this.
  5. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    Just tried this one for the first time since a month ago. After some extended conditioning, this homebrew has greatly improved. What I originally perceived as fusels and esters from the irish yeast may have just been "green beer" qualities. I plan on doing a side by side comparison with the real deal in the next couple of weeks. I'll report my findings soon after!
     
    #45 koopa, Dec 9, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
    telejunkie likes this.
  6. OddNotion

    OddNotion Pooh-Bah (1,915) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    How is the balance with such a high FG and only moderate ibus? I was forumlating a recipe for a bigger milk stout and have some similar numbers to these, I was just a big weary of my beer coming out cloyingly sweet.
     
    #46 OddNotion, Dec 12, 2013
  7. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    No matter what you do, it'll finish high especially with the lactose since it won't ferment. If the beer is dextrinous, it won't be sweet, it'll just be thick (Everett isn't very sweet, just thick). Mine have done really well in competitions, and tend to typically finish around 1.042-1.045 (1.055 if imperial); I started out mashing low (150 F) and kept getting told by judges to make it creamier and thicker, thus the inclusion of GNO, mashing at 159/160F and using 2 lbs lactose per 5 gallons.
     
    #47 barfdiggs, Dec 12, 2013
  8. cfrobrew

    cfrobrew Initiate (0) Oct 9, 2012 Texas

    GNO? also what yeast is everyone thinking for this clone?
     
    #48 cfrobrew, Dec 12, 2013
  9. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    Golden naked oats. My post was regarding milk stout recipe adjustments.

    I don't remember what yeast was published in the BYO magazine. If you can get a growler of Everett, that would probably be the best bet (I have one sitting in the fridge and can try and culture up the yeast from it).
     
    #49 barfdiggs, Dec 12, 2013
  10. ShawDeuce22

    ShawDeuce22 Crusader (457) Mar 17, 2009 Massachusetts

    Shaun mentioned on twitter that you will be culturing their bottling yeast. Not sure the difference between how they condition their kegs vs bottles...just FYI.
     
    #50 ShawDeuce22, Dec 12, 2013
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  11. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    Thanks, thats good to know. I'll try a starter with whatever has flocculated from the growler, but will have low expectations.
     
    #51 barfdiggs, Dec 12, 2013
  12. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    not too many suitable choices when trying to only hit around 62-63% attenuation. I hit the 1.031 FG on the head with my first clone attempt using a combo of wlp002 / wlp004 and adding a small lactose addition, but my starting gravity was 8 points too high to begin with! My mash schedule was 40 minutes @ 155F, then 20 minutes @ 160F. Next time I attempt to clone this one I'm going to use wlp002 and mash around 158 - 159F the whole time. My other suspicion at this point is that the real deal doesn't use lactose and instead uses natural carbonating in the keg via krausening to achieve that awesome mouthfeel.
     
    #52 koopa, Dec 13, 2013
  13. ShawDeuce22

    ShawDeuce22 Crusader (457) Mar 17, 2009 Massachusetts

    Some more data points for this clone (if you would like to call them data points)

    From Twitter:

    homebrewer: ...splitting into 2 fermenters, half with English Ale (WLP002) and other half with harvested yeast from @HillFarmstead Everett

    HF: With our bottling strain =)

    homebrewer: damn, thank you for the heads up before I pitched. Cheers! What is the bottling strain if you don't mind me asking?

    HF: depends upon which bottling you have- but either american ale yeast or a wine yeast
     
    #53 ShawDeuce22, Dec 13, 2013
    koopa likes this.
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Has anybody brewed an Everett Clone using Danstar Windsor yeast? It has been my consistent experience that Windsor results in a beer with a high(er) final gravity.

    Cheers!
     
    #54 JackHorzempa, Dec 13, 2013
  15. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    Just did my side by side comparison.....

    Appearance: My clone (57 srm) is the same color but that's no shocker considering most beers above a certain srm all pretty much the same color. Everett's crown is definitely a shade darker than my clone. Where as my clone is a lightly brown stained khaki, Everett is a medium to deeply brown stained khaki. Definitely a sign that the real deal has more chocolate and/or roast malt in it than my first clone attempt. The real Everett also has increased head retention and tighter carbonation beads. It also gushed out of the bottle, then I poured about 6oz, then it slowly foamed out of the bottle again!

    Smell: Everett has a much more pronounced chocolate note, some additional roasted malt, and comparable hop character to my clone. My clone also has some yeast esters a hint of alcohol presence, and perhaps a dash of acetaldehyde. The real deal smells much cleaner.

    Taste: Pretty much the same as the nose. The real deal has way more chocolate presence (so syrup / fudge like by comparison) especially in the finish, a bit more roast presence, and higher hop bitterness. I also don't pick up any raisin or plum quality in Everett, so I'm going to ditch the c120 malt next time.

    Mouthfeel: Everett is even thicker and way creamier than my first clone attempt. I'm scrapping the lactose idea. I really think naturally carbonating in the keg via krausening is the key. I plan on naturally carbonating in the keg with dme next time myself.

    My next attempt will probably be more along the lines of:

    70% 2 row
    8% chocolate malt
    6% roast barley (no cold water extraction like I did last time)
    8% dark crystal 80
    4% caramalt 35
    4% carapils
    37 ibu's of columbus
    60'ish srm
    lighter hand on the brewing salts than I used last time
    mash in the 158F - 160F range
    wlp002 yeast fermented around 65F
    naturally carbonate in the keg with dme
     
    #55 koopa, Dec 16, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2013
  16. cfrobrew

    cfrobrew Initiate (0) Oct 9, 2012 Texas

    By krausening do you mean adding DME or actually taking krausen from another fermentation (like a starter) and dropping it on a full/flat keg?
     
    #56 cfrobrew, Dec 17, 2013
  17. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    "Krausening is a traditional German method for carbonating beers without using sugars or other adjuncts. Instead actively fermenting malt wort is added to the fermented beer to provide the malted sugars needed for carbonation."

    I know that adding DME is different and that is why I added the word "myself" to the end of the second sentence you quoted. I can see how that sentence can be interpreted differently though, so I appreciate the question! To clarify, I will not be krausening my next Everett clone attempt, although I believe HF does when making the real deal.
     
    #57 koopa, Dec 18, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  18. cfrobrew

    cfrobrew Initiate (0) Oct 9, 2012 Texas

    Great explanation, thanks!
     
    #58 cfrobrew, Dec 18, 2013
  19. jeastman

    jeastman Initiate (0) Dec 17, 2013 New Hampshire

    So chocolate presence is balanced by a number of things. Your hop presence is said to be larger as well as yeast esters which are two things that drown chocolate out. I would look at your fermentation temps, also lower your IBU's (which you have done). This will balance the beer out and you may find the chocolate presence is more pronounced. Also the beers at HF are conditioned for a good amount of time which also brings the chocolate out in a beer, this is why they don't announce release dates, they are released when the beer is ready. 8% CM is going to make this a chocolate bomb for sure you really don't want any higher than 5-6% if all other aspects are controlled correctly.

    -Ferment at low end of the yeast temp range... with 002 I would start at the very bottom and hold till krausen drops then raise 3 degrees a day till you hit a few degrees over the maximum ferment temp.
    -Lower IBU's (looks good on this revision)
    -Crystal 80 is good may be 60 as it does have a candy taste to it to add to sweetness.
    -Low and slow on the mash... I would mash at 148-150 for 90 mins - 120 mins. 160 you may start getting a tannic taste
    -Increase caramel and reduce chocolate
    -Curious what your hop addition times are as this could also cause a greater aroma with to much hops late in the boil vs less in the start which would alter the nose.
    -Order of most to least is as follows... Pale, Caramel, Chocolate Malt, Roasted Barley listed in order on their site for usage
    -Everett has coffee in it as well

    Just my .02 worth on this hope it helps!

    Cheers!
     
    #59 jeastman, Feb 13, 2014
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  20. dbc5

    dbc5 Savant (1,117) Jun 18, 2009 Arizona

    I'm curious as to the recommendation for him to mash at a low temperature for an extended period of time. Given that he perceived Everett to be far thicker and creamier compared to his initial clone attempt, I would be inclined to go with a higher mash temp to enhance body (something in the 154 to 156 range).
     
    #60 dbc5, Feb 13, 2014
    cfrobrew likes this.
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