Bayernbiere Bought and Drunk

Discussion in 'Germany' started by boddhitree, Dec 15, 2012.

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  1. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Hmm. Red flag.
     
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  2. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Maven (1,363) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    I'm still pretty noob-ish on the whole reviewing thing. Perhaps there is a better descriptor, but "apples" is what jumped to mind. Not in an "off-taste" way, though. I get the same sort of flavor sometimes from kellerbiers, St. Georgenbrau included. So it could be that I just don't have a better word to describe what it is I'm tasting.
     
  3. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
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    Was about to say, this is very common in Franconian Kellerbier -- primarily because they are frequently served young.
     
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  4. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    Or it could have been spot-on. Apple-like characters in any beer… except maybe A-B Bud, are off-flavors. Drank a lot of St. Georgen (fresh and bottled) and don't recall that character.

    Then again, many say they pick up a grape-like character in a lot of Munich Helles brands and I'm just starting to understand that character they're tasting. It's a sweetness that can definitely be described as grape-like.

    Was the "apple" character tart and dryish? Or just sweet? If it was just sweet, I'd imagine Herr B is on the right trail.
     
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  5. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Maven (1,363) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Sweet, I'd say, more like a red apple than a green apple. Now someone else needs to try one and tell me what I'm getting!

    Edit: I went back through the small handful of reviews of this beer and no one else uses that descriptor. Perhaps I am off on this one, or something from dinner was clashing.
     
  6. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    That could definitely be a cause, but it could definitely be a yeast character on a young beer as Herr B suggests.
     
  7. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
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    I'd say you are right on in your description. It's a sweet, apple-y estery character -- sometimes with a hint of sulfur from the SO2 production -- from the yeast. Much of the more rustic versions of Franconian Kellerbier are topped off in the keg with very young (i.e. 1-week old) beer to enhance natural carbonation...kinda like Krausening. I highly suggest you watch this video to see what I'm talking about: (Note: in the video they talk about "Bottichbier" [which the subtitler misspells] -- but many unfiltered Kellerbiere are served this way...at various stages of fermentation, depending upon the brewing schedule and the brewery)

     
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  8. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Wow... lovely video. I especially love the meat curing in the lagerkeller.
     
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  9. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    These places can be found in nearly every village surrounding Bamberg. There are literally 100s of them. Next time you make it over that way, be sure to get out into the countryside and explore. The Kellerbiers alone are as diverse and eclectic as any beer style anywhere in the world.
     
  10. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Took me awhile to get around to answering. Was working until 10 pm each evening plus fighting off the onsets of a flu, which I beat back.
    1) Yeah, why wouldn't it? I find it gives it more from the deep integrated flavors, where the sugars, vanilla, cocoa and hazelnuts mix together when cooking/boiling them for longer. The post-fermentation add to flavors also, but also more to the aroma.
    2) It wasn't sweet enough. It was kinda chocolaty, but not enough sweetness backbone. Next time I brew I need to make it sweeter, maybe using more milk sugars? I don't want a malty sweetness, though. The molasses flavors didn't come through enough last year.
    3) There was not a strong hop character, almost barely noticeable, but it was there, for you could feel a counterweight to the malt flavors, which I find comes from hops. I didn't want just hop bitterness, but also some of the flavor as the counterweight to all the other flavors mixing together.
    4) I've yet to find a malt that imparts a hazelnut flavor, or at least one I'm aware of. If you know of one, please tell me. So why not just use hazelnuts?
     
  11. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Maven (1,363) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Just watched the video. Went to watch part 2, but ironically enough because of GEMA it was blocked in Germany. Also blocked in Germany? The official Bundesliga YouTube channel. No lie.
     
  12. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Boo GEMA.

    Parts 2 and 3 are excellent -- they go out to one of the patron's personal beer cellar that is carved into a hill in the nearby woods and drink some Kellerbier from there. They also proceed to get noticeably drunk. Good stuff. Maybe there's another way to view it?
     
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  13. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    As mentioned, some use hazelnut extract which probably gives decent flavor and aroma and is easy to dose. Otherwise if you want to stick to getting flavors from non-adjuncts, I would think that either Victory or biscuit malt might have some of the same characteristics of hazelnut flavor.
     
  14. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    First off, I'd like to apologize to all the others here for our little side discussion; i really should've gone the private message route, but now that's here...
    Second, Victory malt is completely unavailable in Germany, so I can't use it. Basta. Or not... as this thread at hobbybrauer.de in German attests. One person states one make one's own Victory by
    Another solution offered is to sub Melanoiden malt gives more a caramel sweetness found in Märzen.

    I use biscuit malt often and find it has more of a cookie/biscuit and not very nutty flavor. The biscuit malt I get is Belgian, from Brewferm, and I've never seen it described as having a hazelnut flavor. Again, why not go for the extracts?
     
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  15. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Enough talk for me about theoretical beers, how about some real live beer under my nose.
    While cruising through a larger REWE supermarket with an semi-attached Getränkemarkt, 2 beers caught my eye. These are not expected to be wow- or mind-blowing-beers; rather, they're unusual enough to warrant their inclusion here, as you'll see why soon.

    First, a caveat. I'm not a marketing expert, but I studied art in college and marketing is just a way of selling the art you produce, whether it's an Oreo or Picasso, so one is a more cynical extension of the other.

    First, we have Pfungstädter Privatbrauerei, a local for me for it's just south of Darmstadt, and in the same town of the well known, to me at least, Mahrun Getränkemarkt, self-described as the world's largest.

    I wrote up their Pils in the Fernsehbier thread the winner against 3 other actual Fernsehbier, but I don't think I've done any of their other products. So when I saw this:
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    I was instantly interested.

    These 2 pics are both sides of a 0.335L can. Yes, a CAN. Beers from cans in Germany have the same horrible reputation for contain bland to putrid tasting beers as the do/did in America, only more so because no "traditional" brewer would use anything but glass to showcase and sell his precious cultural asset. I've had this beer before, so this isn't like I'm shooting the moon or hankering for a unique "taste experience," or Geschmackserlebnis, as German beer marketers justly and aptly put it. By putting it in a can, and a SMALL can to boot, I'm not sure of their marketing intentions here, but the can is well named, the 0,355l Sleek Dose, or "sleek can." [These could lead into the hilarious, disturbing yet fascinating topic of Denglish words.] Not that anyone in German other than marketers would know what "sleek" in English means, but if you run it through dict.cc, my fav. online dict, you get translations into German words that come closer to:
    1. glatt (smooth, even, and slippery [like ice]),
    2. geschmeidig (smooth, flexible, supple, malleable), and
    3. schnittig (stemming from Schnitt or cut: snappy, smart, streamlined.)
    These terms indicate the marketing direction here and their attempt to modernize the image through subtle but in Germany immensely noticeable packaging. Now where have I seen this can before...? Red Bull, anyone? And here's the marketing in a nutshell: teens and 20-somethings will identify this beer as part of their generation, the Red Bull and vodka crowd and all the cultural connotations that has. The more I analyze this, the more I imagine seeing the marketing geniuses handiwork here, and you know what, I think it really is a stroke of genius.

    Besides, a smaller can is perfect to hold while on the go, at a party, and just allows connotations of movement and freedom from having to drink a full half liter of beer from each container, or being stuck sitting on a bar stool in a smokey, shabby Eckkneipe ("corner bar", a traditional bar where one went after finishing factory work, conjuring up images of stodgy grandfathers with well manicured beer bellies.)

    The next thing to notice is the language of color here. [​IMG]
    Above is their regular color palate: red, green and gold. The regular 1831 Schwarzbier does have some black in the label, naturally, what else for a "black beer," eh? Here's their regular bottled version.
    [​IMG]
    Black and gold predominate, but still, the normal red and green grab center stage on the label.
    Thus, by completely ditching their trademark colors, and relying solely on black, white and gold, they're going for a edgier, hipper crowd, but using gold to link it still to some of beer's tradition and nobility.

    Also, no feel good, Opa images of nature, water, hops, malts, horses, or any other tradition laced image that surely will turn off any hipster teen or 20-something. In fact, Pfundstädter doesn't use images on any of their labels, but that's another topic.

    Before getting down to drink this beer, the whole point here, and this is what yanked my attention to it in the supermarket, is that here is a real attempt at marketing solely to a segment the beer industry is losing horribly today and likely never to get back for life, and need to win over if they plan on any longevity after the 40+ crowd die off. I've seen other, wilder marketing attempts to achieve the same aims to the same marketing demographic, such as Becks, the "first 6 bag for the women's night":
    [​IMG]
    Or to the artistic and goofy at heart, which came from graphic designer-, artist- and customer-driven contests:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Or these, designed by rock bands:
    [​IMG]

    I showed Warsteiner's attempt before:
    [​IMG]
    and using aluminum bottles at a marketing tool:
    [​IMG]
    ----continued in next post----
     
    #935 boddhitree, Nov 23, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
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  16. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm tired after writing, editing that marketing exposé; think I deserve a beer after all that mental gymnastics... oh yeah, I got the Pfungstädter Privatbrauerei's 1831 Schwarzbier on deck.

    Here it is free and in the wild:
    [​IMG]
    I hope you enjoy the irony of drinking it in a 0.2L Pilsner glass, too, from my girlfriend's hometown brewery.

    Here's their marketing speak from their website:
    It seems the copywriters didn't get the memo to update and hipster-ize their vocabulary.

    Appearance: Despite the pic, there was a decent amount of foam, dirty white which dissipated eventually. It sits under a dark beer, not a black beer. It's very very dark amber, blackish orange, but not "black as night" as reported above. It's not "Guinness"or stout-like black, for light still can pass through it. Still, a nice dark amber beer color.

    Aroma: Very malty: Pils, München, Roasted malts all jump out of the glass. It reminds of a Dunkeles and doesn't disappoint. There's a hint of hops in the back, but I know it only because the malts are balanced out somewhat in the nose and don't overpower, so though almost absent in the aroma, they're there if you know what to smell for.

    Flavor: In the front, a determined Noble hop bitterness, not overpowering, light on the front of the tongue, but still demanding attention, mixed with a roasted flavor and the burntness of a blackened cajun chicken....yum.
    In the middle, more bitterness, roasted malts and some lingering hints of burntness, it mixed with the sides, which get sweet roasted malts and Münchner malts, licorice and surgery. In the back there's intense malt sweetness, bready, toasted, a licorice or molasses, and a umami of black malt burntness again, all mixed, yet the sweetness becomes the focus. The aftertaste is another adventure in bitter-sweetness of roasted malts. Lovely beer. Overall, I remembered really liking this beer, and in the can, this beer seems really fresh today. I love the bitter-sweetness, the intensity of flavors... problem is... I can't decide if it's wow beer or not. I really really like it, but, ah what the hell, it's a WOW beer, and here's why: many f the Festbier and Märzen from Franken and Bayern were so sweet that it was a challenge finishing the bottle, yet this gem, though it lays on the München malt sweetness, uses roasted and black malts and bitter hops to nail an umami feeling that really calls you to drink more and more on a cold, dark winter day, or relax on the lawn in summer. It's that bittersweetness I keep coming back to that gives me a warm gemütlich feeling and a süffig feeling that makes you want more.
     
  17. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Maven (1,363) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    First thing I thought about the cans was "looks like an energy drink". Glad to hear at least the beer inside is good. If I ever see one around these parts I'll pick it up.

    Fine reporting as always, @boddhitree ! Thanks for the effort on our behalf!
     
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  18. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Tony is da man!

    Prost!
     
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  19. danfue

    danfue Initiate (0) Sep 16, 2012 Germany

    I know the 1831 Schwarzbier, but I've never seen it in those cans. Especially the fact that these are 355 ml is intriguing, this is a completely untypical size for Germany and most of Europe. You either have 500 ml or 330 ml. But isn't it equivalent to the 12oz-bottles that are sold in the US? Could it be those cans are meant for export to the States?
     
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  20. danfue

    danfue Initiate (0) Sep 16, 2012 Germany

    Weißer Bock by Weißbierbrauerei Hopf from Miesbach in Oberbayern. A solid, seasonal Weizenbock. Nice amber color, very yeasty aroma and taste. Some spices, some sweetness, not at all too heavy. I had the other beers from that brewery before and found them all to be quite okay, but this one is rather quite good.

    [​IMG]
     
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