Heading to Germany

Fresh and on tap I think it is quite nice. I've never had the bottled version so I can't compare. I still like Mühlen but I think it is a shadow of how it was 10-12 years ago. Much lighter now in color and body.

 

What, no Rhabarbarbier?

 

Yes, Rhabarberbarbarabarbarenbier!

 

I had to send that to my wife.

 

“I still like Mühlen but I think it is a shadow of how it was 10-12 years ago. Much lighter now in color and body.”

That reminds me of the ‘lightening’ (lightening from a hop presence perspective) of German Pilsners over the past few decades. Below is something that Conrad Seidl wrote up on that topic:

“In 1973 the average German Pilsner would have had a bitterness of 34 IBUs, with extreme samples going as high as 50 IBUs and the low end having only 16 IBUs. There was little change until 1985, but by 1995 the average bitterness was down to 30, and another decade it was 27. Statistics from 2008 indicate an average bitterness of 26.5 IBUs….”

“In the style guidelines for the prestigious World Beer Cup competition, German Pilsner is still defined as having 30-40 IBUs, but the German brewers themselves have allowed the snappy hop character of pilsner to erode.”

Conrad did not specifically use the word “shadow” in the above but maybe he should have?

Cheers!

 

That's honestly the first time I've heard anyone say that about Muehlen. Have you spoken to anyone or read any primary source material from someone in a position to say if the numbers on it have changed? Maybe have some pics from back then to compare against?

Would also be interested to hear if you noticed any changes in any of the Bamberg (and Bbg-area) beers. When I was there last year after a relatively long absence, I actually found them to be just as hoppy (if not more...but that was probably my palate) as ever. Well, actually the Klosterbrau had changed, but this was well documented/established and (from what I heard) a temporary thing.

 

No hard facts, just subjective. It could just be me, but my opinions of most of the other Cologne beers hasn't changed much.

As for Bamberg, I have noticed the smokiness of Spezial and Schlenkerla does change over time -- makes some sense as they make their own rauchmalz. And when Klosterbräu sees me coming I think they say "Here comes that guy, give him the crappy stuff" because I haven't had a decent Braunbier there in 5-6 years, though others (here and elsewhere) often rave about it. Back when it came in the classes with all the different Price Bishops it was quite decent. Interesting also that none of my local friends drink there anymore.

And the classic example of downhill is Sippel in Baunach. They went from great to pour it out in what seems like record time.

 

Funny about the smokiness in the Rauchbier. Matthias Trum told me and my buddy that the Stammtisch regulars are convinced that the best Seidla come from the first pours of the keg. My buddy and I laughed, because we always felt like the best ones came from the bottom 1/3 of the keg. The 50-liter kegs at that, as the 10-liter ones they bring out as closing time approaches always tasted kinda tinny.

In short, I think a lot of it is psychological or one's own palate playing tricks. Trum said he has frequently served the Stammtisch Kunden bottled beer and told them it was from the keg...and they never noticed the difference. Still, I continue to look forward to that final 1/3 of the keg...now believing that my preference has to do with carbonation levels.

As for Klosterbrau -- it's truly a shame what has happened. And I agree about the Braunbier; while I still enjoyed drinking it this past trip, it hardly held the place in my heart -- and my top 5 Bamberg beers -- like it used to.

Still didn't notice any significant change from the Muehlen I drank years ago and the ones from last year. But again, that's just one subjective opinion vs. another at this point.

EDIT: still interested to hear more details about the decline in quality you noticed at Malzmuehle. I would assume that you feel the richness of the malt decreased with the color?

 

We've often remarked the difference between the first and last beers of a barrel at Uerige as well -- a change in carbonation and temperature and (in Uerige's case) even some oxidation.

I'm not trying to make a big deal about Mühlen -- I've been there at least once every year since 1996 so it's not a case of going back after a long absence and noticing the difference. One friend has been with me on at least 16 of the times agrees that we thought it used to be a darker color (a deep gold) and had (as you said) a richer malt profile. But if somebody produced numbers that said it hasn't changed, then I'd chalk it up to impending old age

Actually, I'm more upset that they changed their recipe for their Kartoffelsuppe -- it used to be broth based with chunks of potatoes and ham but now it is cream based like everybody else.

As for Klosterbräu, I had the obligatory Braunbier when I was there in May and again in October and both times I could only drink about half. Just not worth the space in the liver when you can walk around the corner to Eckerts for a Gänstallerbräu or up the hill to Stöhrenkeller.

 

Shame about the Kartoffelsuppe. When I was there last (during Christmas) I had the Gruenkohl and Mettwurst. Can't go wrong there!

As to the color and maltiness: is it possible they stopped decoction mashing? In order to answer this myself, I would need to know if they even practiced it in the first place. Maybe you can enlighten?

 

Could be. I've only toured the brewery once -- a long time ago -- and it was cut very short because the brewer had a personal emergency he had to take care of.

 

“…it used to be a darker color (a deep gold) and had (as you said) a richer malt profile.”

The aspects of deeper color and richer malt profile reads like Kolsch Malt to me:

“4.5° L. From a maltster co-op based in Osthofen, near Köln, this malt is used by some of the brewpubs in that city to make their trademark ale. Kölsch malt has a light, sweet and extremely German flavor and aroma with a little bit of biscuit character. We've had good results using a multi-temp step mash with Kölsch malt, but a single infusion — although not traditional — works as well. Style nerds please take note: the maltster rates the color of this malt at 9 EBC. If you use 100% Kölsch malt for the grist of a Kölsch, you will be within spec according to Eric Warner's Kölsch (7-14 EBC, or 3.5-7 SRM — p. 51), but definitely on the dark end of the BJCP guidelines. If you are brewing for a competition, you may want to incorporate some pils or wheat malt into the grain bill to dilute the color.”

I homebrewed my last batch of Kolsch using Kolsch Malt and it was darker than most packaged Kolsch beers (e.g., Fruh, Gaffel, Reisdorf) and it had a robust malty flavor with some biscuit and hay-like notes.

I wonder if the brewing of Mühlen has been a switch in grains over the years: from Kolsch Malt to lighter kilned Pilsner Malt?

Cheers!

 

Since you have brewed with the Koelsch malt, could you maybe post a pic of your version for comparison purposes? I know I'd be interested in seeing how it turned out as well as how it compares to the Koeln brewery versions I have consumed.

 

Nice. What is your take on the great German vs. U.S. craft pilsner debate? How does, say, Polestar compare to Keesmann? Similarites/differences?

Also, what did you win the AHA ribbons for? (Regardless, congrats!..and Prost!)

 

We get Polestar -- and I have purchased a 6-pack of the pilsner -- here in SC. Unfortunately, the stuff doesn't seem to move much, so it was slightly past its best-by date. I remember thinking at the time that it was solid, and that it had likely faded due to age. I can imagine that it is quite good fresh at the source...and I plan to visit if/when I make it out to CO. Right after I drink my fill at Prost Brewing!

Congrats on the ribbons. What styles did you have go to finals?

 

I wasn't sure where to post this, so sorry for thread hijack. OTOH, maybe somebody heading to Germany should read this before departure so that they don't wonder about people eating Bratwurst, Frikadellen and Leberkäse for breakfast.

http://www.livhambrett.com/everything-i-know-about-germany-germans/what-i-know-about-germans/

 

Thanks for that link!
I haven’t read all of the 101 entries but my favorites so far are:

• Germans worship the pig.
• Germans love a good rule

Cheers!