Naming a brewery: Google is your friend.

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by BurkeBeerGuy, Jan 3, 2014.

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  1. BurkeBeerGuy

    BurkeBeerGuy Initiate (0) May 27, 2008 Virginia

    How many stories have you read in the last couple of years about Startup Brewery getting a cease-and-desist letter from Existing Brewery re: Startup's name? A lot, right? It's easy to say, "Man, it's all about the beer, why do lawyers have to get involved?", but I don't understand why people have so many problems getting a name, and obviously don't spend FIFTEEN MINUTES Googling before they pick a name. Here's a recent case, which is local for me in NoVa:
    http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/article...open-merrifield-brewery&template=fairfaxTimes

    This guy wanted to be Top Sail. There's an existing, well-established, well-known, brewery called Full Sail in Oregon that (hello) distributes to the East. I've had their beers; not bad. It should have taken the new guy fifteen whole minutes on the internet to figure this out; instead, he's pissed, because he got a cease and desist letter, as well he should have. Similar thing just happened in DC -- established DC Brau, as one of their best-known beers, brews a pale ale called "Citizen." A new DC brewery wanted to be . . . wait for . . . Citizen Brewing Company. Uh, no. So, now, they're "Denizen Brewing Company." This now happens 10-12 times a year around the country, MINIMUM, that *I* hear about, and I'm just an interested beer geek.

    Thoughts?
     
    #1 BurkeBeerGuy, Jan 3, 2014
  2. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Savant (1,207) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    Top != Full

    That is all.
     
    #2 rlcoffey, Jan 3, 2014
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  3. DaveAnderson

    DaveAnderson Initiate (0) Jan 11, 2011 Minnesota

    Did you search the forums for similar threads before posting this?
     
    #3 DaveAnderson, Jan 3, 2014
    beerborn, TheBeerBro, geocool and 9 others like this.
  4. mychalg9

    mychalg9 Pooh-Bah (2,123) Apr 8, 2010 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    I am not using Google but am willing to bet that my brewery name, Generic Name Beer Company has not been taken yet.
     
    #4 mychalg9, Jan 3, 2014
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  5. Jason

    Jason Founder (0) Aug 23, 1996 Massachusetts

    #5 Jason, Jan 3, 2014
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  6. reverseapachemaster

    reverseapachemaster Zealot (722) Sep 21, 2012 Texas

    It's not always as simple as just googling for beer names, although that is a common sense place to start. It is definitely cheaper than picking a name and spending money developing the brand without checking to see if somebody else has a probable claim to the name or mark. A google search itself won't uncover every possible claim but it should be done before an attorney is paid to perform a trademark search.

    The Citizen situation you mention is a little more obvious; you have to imagine the guys at Denizen would have known the DC Brau beer was around the market. However, is anything Sail-related necessarily controlled by Full Sail? I'm not entirely sure I agree that Full Sail has a win on that one. Obviously Full Sail wants to C&D anything sail-related to protect its mark as much as possible but that doesn't mean Full Sail will win on every C&D sent out.

    It's going to get increasingly more difficult to find open names for any brewery or its beers. There are so many breweries producing so many beers it will only be a matter of time before any possible name has been scooped up by some brewpub or production brewery somewhere in the country. The number of C&D letters sent out will surely increase and legal battles will arise as breweries with similar beer/brewery names grow and start competing in the same market.
     
    #6 reverseapachemaster, Jan 3, 2014
  7. Providence

    Providence Pooh-Bah (2,652) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    If I wanted to call my brewery Top Sail and found out about a brewery called Full Sail, I wouldn't think twice about proceeding with Top Sail.
     
    #7 Providence, Jan 3, 2014
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  8. fredmugs

    fredmugs Initiate (0) Aug 11, 2012 Indiana

    One of my friends is really close to officially opening his brewery in town. When the whole West Sixth - magic hat debacle was going on I asked him if he put any effort into naming his brewery, beers, etc. and he actually paid a company that helped with the name, the logo, and everything. Probably a good investment on his part.
     
    #8 fredmugs, Jan 3, 2014
  9. cestlavie

    cestlavie Initiate (0) Oct 27, 2011 New York

    What about Grey Sail of Rhode Island? No letter went to them?
     
    #9 cestlavie, Jan 3, 2014
  10. willbm3

    willbm3 Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2010 Massachusetts

    I don't think these situations are nearly as cut and dry as you think...
    Did this company do a formal trademark review or just come up with a name and logo?
     
    #10 willbm3, Jan 3, 2014
  11. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Savant (1,207) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    That would support Top Sail's claim in court that Full Sail either doesnt own a trademark on "Sail" or hasnt protected it.
     
    #11 rlcoffey, Jan 3, 2014
  12. cestlavie

    cestlavie Initiate (0) Oct 27, 2011 New York

    someone should let Top Sail know... help those guys fight the good fight.
     
    #12 cestlavie, Jan 3, 2014
  13. Chaz

    Chaz Grand Pooh-Bah (3,668) Feb 3, 2002 Minnesota
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    How about: "That Craft Beer Brewery"? :grinning:
     
    #13 Chaz, Jan 3, 2014
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  14. BurkeBeerGuy

    BurkeBeerGuy Initiate (0) May 27, 2008 Virginia

    There's a world of ways that this stuff can get settled between owners/users of similar marks -- restricting marketing areas, the original mark holder granting some kind of limited permission, and so on. I would agree that Grey Sail would be as vulnerable to a C&D from Full Sail as Top Sail was (say that three times fast), but you don't know what communications happened, and whether any kind of deal was cut. But it does seem like some of these guys don't do their homework . . .
     
    #14 BurkeBeerGuy, Jan 3, 2014
  15. BurkeBeerGuy

    BurkeBeerGuy Initiate (0) May 27, 2008 Virginia

    They already changed their name; see the original story.
     
    #15 BurkeBeerGuy, Jan 3, 2014
  16. charlzm

    charlzm Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2007 California

    You think finding a brewery name is hard? Try coming up with a band name that hasn't been used...
     
    #16 charlzm, Jan 3, 2014
  17. bulletrain76

    bulletrain76 Maven (1,311) Nov 6, 2007 California

    Double Barrel Brewing in Ohio also just found this out the hard way.

    In other news, I'm thinking of opening a brewery called Fat Tire Brewing Co. Should probably look that up though.
     
    #17 bulletrain76, Jan 3, 2014
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  18. BurkeBeerGuy

    BurkeBeerGuy Initiate (0) May 27, 2008 Virginia

    Another Virginia situation: There's Wild Wolf in Nelson County (central Virginia). There's Wolf Hills in Abingdon (SW Virginia) (NOTE: Wolf Hills was Abingdon's original name, so there's a geographic component there). And now there's Bad Wolf in Manassas (NoVa). Wolf Hills does cans and bottles, and markets in NoVa. I actually asked the Bad Wolf guys if they'd gotten any pushback on the name from Wild Wolf, and they said they hadn't.
     
    #18 BurkeBeerGuy, Jan 3, 2014
  19. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,518) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    STAFF Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah

    Locking this one down. The general topic has been discussed numerous times.

    Google will only take you so far. Businesses need to hire a lawyer who specializes in trademark law, file, and then protect their property or risk losing it. /end
     
    #19 Todd, Jan 3, 2014
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