Preboil hop steep?

I imagine his steeping grains can't self-convert, or not enough to matter, so I would say that I'm not really advocating a mash.

 

OP (presumably) has no base malts. I think JohnWSnow was simply recommending less water for the specialty grain steep, to reduce potential extraction on tannins.

 

I've never seen anything correlating the amount of watter used in steeping to tannin extraction.
I digress (as usual), my point is that steeping grains in less water than a full boil sounds like mashing to me. I mean, if you or I or anyone except the op for the sake of argument had a all grain batch that didn't fully convert would that mean that it wasn't a mash? And if you're steeping in a couple of gallons, why not just toss in a handful of 6 row and minimash? The idea of steeping is silly to me. You are already to tthe point where you can at least mash your specialty grains and add dme or lme later in the boil, so why even bother with steeping at all?

 

So, for example with this recipe, a person could throw some 6row into the steeping bag, and insteadd of steeping the grains, add 2 qts of water to the grains and mash them at 150 for an hour, rinse with some 165 degree water, top off your kettle, pitch hops and proceede to boiling. All of the extract batches I did I would use this minimashing technique after the first few batches I did were lackluster.

 

More water = (generally) higher pH.

 

Looking into the grains a little more doing something along the lines of a mini mash may be what's needed. The specialty grains are 1# of Munich 10L, .5# caramel 60L, .5# carafoam and .5# of melanoiden.

I'm now wondering if just doing a mini mash in a bag with the fwh and rinsing before topping of the kettle wouldn't be a more efficient way to have the recipe turn out better. Thinking maybe that I'll get more efficient use of the specialty grains?

 

When you said 2 pounds of steeping grains, I had assumed you meant 2 pounds of grains that are actually suitable for steeping. The munich and the melanoidin are not, so a mini-mash is in order. The question is...does the munich have enough enzymes to convert itself and the melanoidin, with the two crystal malts also running interference? It might depend on the brand of Munich. If not, you might want to add a little two-row to the mash also.

 

Munich and melanoidin are both grains that should be mashed. Mashing with hops isn't really FWH.

 

I have seen information on this. If the water and steeping grains are dilute enough, the pH can be high, and you get tannins. The grains will only neutralize so much alkalinity in the water. With less water, the pH can be lower, and tannin extraction minimized.

 

When I was looking into the grains for the recipe I really wondering why I was going to steep two grains that should mashed. I'm now wondering whether there is a suitable substitute for those two grains without completely changing the recipe.

 

If I add more grains wouldn't I have to up the amount of hops to balance them?

 

If you liked the recipe the way it was, you would probably want to cut back on the LME or DME when you add the extra base malt to the mini-mash, so that your total original gravity comes out about the same.

 

Shredder, when I was stuck with extract brewing I would use beersmith (if you have an android download brewr, its free) and sub out the appropriate amount of lme or dme for 6 row when mini mashing. I used 6 row for its high diastatic power. 1 lb of 6 row usually converted 2 lbs of low diastatic grains. Don't add the hops with your mash. Once you rinse the grains, top up your kettle and apply heat. When your wort hits 155 dump those fwh hops in and continue on with your boil as normal. I think you will enjo the fruits of this small amount of extra labor.

 

Thanks for all the information everyone, I'm going to think about all this stuff and figure out how I'll precede with this recipe and let you all know after I gather the ingredients and brew. Cheers all!

 

quick question everyone, i've calculated the specifics of the recipe, it's an american ipa with an estimated o.g. of 1.066 and a estimated final gravity of 1.017 with an est. abv of 6.5%. I'm going to be using wyeast 1968 english ale yeast. How many packages do I need to pitch to reach my estimated goals? Thank you in advance.

Edit: this is a 5 gallon batch

 

1, if you make a starter, assuming the yeast is not too old.

 

Try one of these...
Mr Malty Calculator at http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html
YeastCalc Calculator at http://www.yeastcalc.com/
BrewCipher Spreadsheet at https://drive.google.com/folderview...jMC00YmM5LTgzN2UtYmNhYzk0ZTg0YWNm&usp=sharing
(This last one is my general brewing spreadsheet.)

 

I know that I kind of highjacked this thread after I asked about fwh additions and I'm sorry. But just an update for those of you who helped me with your advice:

I just cracked open my first bottle of my very first batch, the one you guys all helped me with and it turned out pretty damn good. I had to adjust the recipe due to a measuring error on my part and cut the dryhop to 2.25 oz instead of 3 oz, but I think it tastes pretty good. It has a good citra aroma, nice body and a surprisingly smooth bitterness considering my calculated ibu's ended up being almost 88 for a pale ale.

A little bit darker than I expected, probably because it was a partial extract, but nothing that I care too much about. I ended up doing a partial mash so I could use more grain and less extract. I hit my o.g. dead on and my f.g. was only .002 off what I estimated it would be. All in all I'm pleasantly surprised about how good it turned out and I feel like my research and attention to detail really paid off. Its pretty cool to sip on a genuinely good beer knowing that my hard work brought it to life.

Thanks for all the advice everyone, cheers, and happy brewing!!

 

I know it sounds cool and ALOT of stuff sounds very cool and seems like oh shit, I gotta try that! But seriously, first time you should completely stick to the recipe, no short cuts, no freestyling. I wish I woulda did my first couple of batches following the recipe to the LETTER. Wait until you have a few batches under your belt and once you really got the hang of it then start playing around. I royally fucked up trying to add stuff and alter recipes when I first started out, and its amazing I kept going after messing things up, it really discouraged me. Jus sayin.

 

One post above yours I posted an update of how things turned out. I did a fwh which is what the recipe called for, yes I made a mistake measuring but my brew turned out pretty damn good anyway.