Long Term Secondary in Plastic Carboy??

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Abawol01, Jan 10, 2014.

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  1. Abawol01

    Abawol01 Initiate (0) Dec 17, 2013 Michigan

    Opinions or thoughts?

    Do you think leaving a brew to rest on cherries/chocolate/etc. for 2-3 months in a plastic carboy would give it off flavors??

    Thinking about using plastic but scared of long term issues that may arise. Anyone every done this?
     
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I would not recommend a long term secondary in a ‘regular’ plastic carboy since it is not oxygen impermeable; the beer will get oxidized.

    You could purchase a ‘special’ plastic carboy of Better Bottle carboy if you want to conduct a long term secondary in a plastic vessel. The plastic used to make Better Bottle resists oxygen diffusion across the material.

    Cheers!
     
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  3. telejunkie

    telejunkie Savant (1,107) Sep 14, 2007 Vermont

    agree with Jack...but several factors to consider. For PET (Better Bottle), the oxygen diffusion rate is something like 1/10th that of HPDE (brew buckets). But that is not factoring in the width of the walls. Obviously HDPE that is say 20mm wide is about the same diffusion rate as PET that is 2mm wide:
    http://www.faybutler.com/pdf_files/HowHoseMaterialsAffectGas3.pdf
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    There was a white paper on the Better Bottle website which listed the Oxygen Permeability Coefficients in units of cm3 mm/m3 day Atm 20° - 25°C for various materials. Below are the values for Better Bottle PET and HDPE

    The Better Bottle PET had a value <1

    HDPE had a value of 44—91.

    Assuming a value of 1 for the Better Bottle PET it seems to me that this material has an oxygen diffusion rate of something like 0.022 to 0.011 that of HPDE (brew buckets). Needless to say but this is smaller than the 0.1 (1/10th) of the material you sourced.

    I am not a Materials Engineer so I am not sufficiently educated to reconcile the various values and I do not know if and how material thickness plays into the overall discussion.

    Cheers!
     
  5. Abawol01

    Abawol01 Initiate (0) Dec 17, 2013 Michigan

    Holy crap! You guys know way to much. I think I'm scared of you!

    From the sound of things I should stick with glass for extended aging.

    I appreciate the help guys.
     
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    My understanding is that transmission rate and thickness are inversely proportional.
     
  7. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

  8. Ilanko

    Ilanko Initiate (0) Aug 3, 2012 New York

    As far as my experience go's, plastic buckets works grate for two month on secondary . The issue is not "off flavors" it's beer oxidized and long term light exposed.
     
  9. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    Are you doing a sour? If not, I think it would be acceptable to put the beer on the chocolate and cherries for about a month and move on to packaging.
     
  10. Abawol01

    Abawol01 Initiate (0) Dec 17, 2013 Michigan

    Just cherries. Looking at a tart cherry saison. Gonna test it at 1 month and then monthly beyond that. Brewing it the first week of February and hoping to have it ready first week of June.
     
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