Crooked Stave's Diacetyl Problem

I have yet to get any diacetyl from Persica, and I've tried each blend a few times. The only one you mentioned that I got a little bit from was the St. Bretta Fall, but it was more like a subtle corn pop flavor. I don't really know exactly why you would get diacetyl in some bottles but not others, but with 100% brettanomyces beers I would expect that some variation could occur in bottle conditioning. I'm also interested to see some feedback from the CS team.

 

I think people are reaching at this point, I haven't had Persica but have had the others a few times with no issues.

 

Can someone explain what the diacetyl problem is exactly?

 

it's that buttery flavor beers can develop

 

Its been asked. Here is Chad's reply regarding the possibility Diacetyl in Persica. (I pulled this from a different forum).

'Thanks for reaching out. As you know, wild and barrel-aged sour beers are a whole different breed of beers when it comes to production and how they evolve. Almost all of our barrel-aged and barrel fermented beers are a blend of beers which have spent time with our mixed sour culture. While lactobacillus will sometimes produce small amounts of diacetyl, pediococcus which is the major souring bacteria in our mixed culture is also capable of producing a lot of diacetyl, especially after blending and at bottling if any residual fermentation is occurring or has just occurred. In young beers, diacetyl occurs during fermentation and will remain if the beer is removed from the yeast early or is bottled young and doesn't condition long enough with the yeast. In the case of Persica, the beer is well aged during it's time in oak, but the pedio kicks up a little re-fermentation and we can sometimes get a noticeable diacetyl character for a short time.

It's just the nature of how it works, sometimes in our beers if you catch them at the right (or wrong) time they will go through a phase and have some diacetyl present. The Brettanomyces yeast and other yeast in the bottle will take back up the diacetyl and convert it to a less flavor active compound, essentially removing it from the beer. The best thing to do is wait and let the beer evolve, all our barrel-aged wild beers continue to get better as they evolve and I would recommend cellaring them for some time.'
Thanks again!
Chad Yakobson

 

It's just the nature of sour beers.

 

I had a Persica (latest batch) that tasted creamy. Gonna sit on the other one I got for awhile.

 

Thanks for chiming in Tomme. What other products would you accept this in while paying premium prices? All BS aside I haven't had one of my persicas yet and haven't had a bad beer from CS since Sentience, or any bad beers from CS other than sentience but I do think it sucks that you could open one at the wrong time. Can Chad let us know when to open em? Anyone with Raspberry or Cherry Origins that wants to gamble on Persica please message me because I will gladly trade all my persica futures away. Anyone with any Hop Savant with Galaxy should tear into em now because they are drinking fanfuckingtastic. I've been a huge critic of CS's price increases but damn I love their beer.

 

I'm not trying to be a prick about it, but come on, what do you want them to seriously do about it, go the road of pasteurization like New Belgium and Boulevard? Hell no. It's a live beer, it's gonna change. Stop barrel-aging? Hell no, to that too. I'm not saying I don't agree with you about being upset over opening a beer at the bad time, considering how expensive they are... the only real way to completely prevent possible growth like that (aside from pasteurization) is to make high-ABV beers like Avery, but that's not Crooked Stave beers...

 

This is in fact the nature of bottle conditioned beers that use unpredictable yeast strains. It's up to the customer to decide if it's worth it. To me it isn't worth the damned headache anymore. I've had enough of dropping coin on a beer I love one day only to hate it a few weeks later. I dated girls like this and didn't enjoy that experience either.

 

I agree with you, i was just busting balls.

 

If you have a membership I will buy it from you

 

No membership.

 

Well it looks like this butter problem is going to continue so the offer stands for anyone who wants to sell me theirs.

 

Interesting - this is the first I've heard of this problem. I've probably had 10 various CS bottles over the past 6 months of basically everything they've produced over the past year, and I haven't had any diacetyl problems. Bummer for the OP - there's nothing that ruins a beer faster for me than diacetyl flavors. Like eating popcorn beer - yuck.

Now I'm worried about the CS beers I have in my cellar, especially the small-batch one-offs that I loved when I had a bottle on release (Zeke's comes to mind). I'll be BUMMED if diacetyl ruins those beers.

 

I've only seen it reported for a handful of bottles of Persica and St Bretta Fall, and any that do have it will not last, the diacetyl should go away with some time

 

Peach Whiskey Surette had some diacetyl on release but it is long gone.

 

Glad I waited to drink those in that case