Extreme Tastes and Lager

Did you reply, "No, actually, I have no need to admit that."

 

Very honest post. The problem with the second half that I bolded, is the masses are not experts in beer. For the most part, they don't understand what many styles should taste like. Which is why we see such a discrepancy between bold and extreme styles and subtler styles such as pilsners. Beeradvocates would be better served using the ratings as loose guidelines, and spending more time LEARNING about beer rather than rushing out to try the latest highly rated brew.

 

This is so awesome. If I wouldn't come off as a complete dick, I would probably use this every time someone I know is getting into beer and then tells me they love IPAs.

 

Loving IPAs is fine, just don't discount a beer (style) you don't understand as "flavorless" because your fave is uber-flavored. As you astutely point out above, spend more time learning what a style ought to be, not what you* wish it would be.

(*pronoun liberally used as all-inclusive of less-understanding beer drinkers, not Al)

 

Guilty as charged. I haven't been on this site for a full year yet (2 months to go), but I can tell you that I am just now beginning to come around to more traditional styles and my personal ratings are beginning to look a little bit more rational. I don't think there was a DIPA that I rated below a 4.5 for a while.

I'm sure you were joking to some extent, but I can tell you that you had/have me pegged.

 

I agree. I also love them. They were the first style I fell in love with. But when I meet someone who is new to beer, it's great they're not drinking Bud Light, but their response is that they love IPAs.....and then they don't mention much else. And my response to them is typically, "I dig IPAs too, but these days I drink more subtler, lower alcohol beers....but sure, I love a good IPA."

For example, one of my friends just got into beer last year. The first time I went to a beer bar with him, he drank IPAs all night long. I had him try Uncle Teddy's Bitter on cask and he made a weird face and said he didn't like it. I love that beer....ALOT. It's fantastic and has so much going on. But new craft drinkers are so used to getting their palate slammed with flavor, they miss out on everything something like a nice English ale has on cask.

 

I indulged last night and had 2 flights while out. Included in the 8 beers was one from Hill Farmstead with a 100 BA rating and a 13.5% ABV beer from Kuhnhenn. My favorite of the 8 was the 4.8% English brown with an 81 rating.

My preference was one of little consequence, but I wonder if that's also true of the market the article is pondering. Users of this website might be a huge group, but they are still a subset of a subset. While it feels like breweries are aging anything and everything in barrels in order to cater to (or keep up with) the interests of beer reviewers, most consumers that I know are picking up the likes of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale or Brooklyn Lager.

As more stores post ratings from websites alongside the product, the ratings (at the point of purchase) will certainly influence the broader market, but perhaps that influence would be very very small. We'll see. Maybe someone who understands this dynamic with wine can chime in, but I'm guessing that things like Budweiser, the 6 pack format, and less emphasis on vintages will buffer this influence a bit.

 

That was the first thought that came into my head.

This is the reason I didn't blurt that out. By the way, his favorite styles were IPAs and Imperial Stouts.

Close, I said, "Well, we're all allowed to be wrong from time to time. I'll let that slide this time."

 

After all the IPA, I'm sure it tasted like water to him!

Couldn't agree more. When I first started getting into better beer I was lucky enough to fall in with a group of home-brewers who loved the variance of different styles. From Bitter to Barley Wine, Pilsner to Doppelbock. Not sure why today's new beer drinker has to jump right to in-your-face and stay there.

 

Yeah- I suppose that's not the easiest thing to pull off without being a dick about it. I can do it in my imagination well enough, though .

That's all cool and understandable, and I don't have a problem with that sort of thing, honestly. Your progression may not apply to everybody, but it seems to be common enough. And there's definitely a lot to take in at first these days.

I wouldn't make that comment as a sort of blanket statement, anyway, and I'm not looking down on people who are just starting out; it would be more pegged as a response to the provocative 'know-it-all' attitude of that other guy.

 

I feel the same way. The guy I was referring to was a total beer snob too. Don't even get me started on his opinions of domestic drinkers.

 

With all due respect, I believe there are problems with a philosophy like this in a wide context. Perhaps it makes sense to rate/judge this way in homebrew competitions - where a group of people decide on a set of characteristics that everybody needs to aim for... and the competitor who gets closest to this is rewarded. In the realm of a beer review website, the downsides to this are:

- beers that are thought to be of high quality but do not hit a style dead on would be penalized
- beers that intentionally straddle different styles would be penalized
- styles are not static
- people do not agree on style guidelines
- the system would not reward experimentation

To be fair, nothing is perfect. The consequences of the rating system here are apparent when looking at the names of the "top ten" English brown ales and seeing: Oatmeal Raisin Cookie, Vanilla, Cubano-Style Espresso, Blueberry Muffin, Bourbon Barrel (seriously).

 

As I said, there's no level playing field online. But I think AlcaheuteJ hit it on the head when he said,

Learning about beer leads to discovering that the different styles are good in their own ways, not when comparing a Barley Wine to a Bitter and knee-jerking that the Barley Wine is "better" just because it's bigger and bolder.

 

I very much understand where you're coming from, and have enjoyed your posts since signing up. This comment just struck a chord with me as someone who is beginning to form an appreciation for styles beyond American IPAs. Something of a gentle reminder not to get too big for my so-called britches.

 

I think that inherent in this discussion is something that all of us have at some point or another grappled with (at least I have) - and that is our use/overuse of the rating system to guide our beer purchasing and drinking decisions. Everyone is more or less saying the same thing. But it sounds like we're all just reassuring ourselves and others that we are not habitually checking each and every beer's BA rating prior to consumption or purchase. In the end, the rating system is just a ridiculously flawed concept, and discussions revolving around beer releases on these boards are akin to media hype machines. Is a beer good or bad? Only one person can answer that: you. Taste it and find out for yourself.

Anyone know where I can find BCBS?

 

I should have mentioned this was only our second beer of the day. And the first one was well over an hour before we tried the Uncle Teddy's Bitter. He also never described it as water, just gave me a face that read, "Bleh!" and said he didn't like it.

 

I think the lagerbier or the more subtle styles suffer in the ratings because you can't really talk about them without sounding effusive and overly emotional. A good helles lager is clean and it will have subtle nuances but you won't find yourself filling out page after page of description because it is clean; and there's not too much to say other than "outstanding " or "exemplary." Blueberry muffin top voodoo honey donut is the name of a beer or a feature length movie? If a lager gets straight fours across the board it is OUTStandign and you have to interpret ratings based on their definitions. It's also so much harder to come up with a reason to give a 5 or even a 4.5/5 to a lager because they are practical. They drink practically and without effort and that skews your interpretation. I did it today with hofbrau original. I think I could take it up a good 2 tenths. Will I? No. And the reason why not is because it's not really an epiphany if it's common and anyone could reach it. That's wonderful in a common sense kind of way.

 

On Ba one can become amused by all of the love for extreme flavors and the disdain for Lagers. A lager named Rauchbier is too extreme for many, which I find amusing.