Let's talk Pilsners

True but Stahl can't " swing a wet coat'" and get SNPA or a good IPA, Stout ect. ect. ect..

 

1. Victory Prima Pils
2. Sly Fox Pikeland Pils
3. Mama's Liittle Yellow Pils
4. Stoudt's Pils

 

Your kindness is apparent, and I appreciate your kind words for your friend and admire your tactfulness in approaching this little back and forth we got going.

Ultimately the exchanges were useless - more focus on the egos and attitudes instead of beer. I am going to stop this post now for fear that I will make qualifying statements that will kill any credibility from the above statement.

So with that, Prost!

 

New Glarus Edel-Pils
Victory Prima Pils
New Glarus Two Women
Lefthand Polestar

 

As excellent as it may be now to your tongue, to those around here old enough to have been used to the original recipe what they produce nowadays is crap. If even now it stands up against what else you have available then that's telling volumes about how lacking your other Pils offerings must be. I've never been Pils hunting in New Jersey or Oregon for that matter, when I'm in the States I'm usually in RI to visit my wife's family but should I ever come to your neck of the woods I'll let you know so you'll get a fair chance to convice me otherwise

 

4th time lucky ? Let me try this again and before you apply debate club rules again, please be advised that I'm Bavarian and English is my 3rd language.

1) I remember the original PU very fondly.
2) They changed it.
3) Now it's crap. Every time I can't weasle out of having to drink it, it makes me gag.
4) I have a similar reaction to Warsteiner and Bitburger which I also remember as rather small local breweries.
5) My original point really was that expanding usually goes hand in hand with a massive loss of quality.
6) I'm sorry I offended your palate and your honeymoon memories.

I do understand that in your frame of reference what I said must sound like blasphemy. However, my frame of reference is completely different and so is my perception of current PU. I don't expect you or anyone else to change their view on PU. Neither do I expect "steveh" to change his view on Spaten. Was I clear enough now ?

 

Would that make Dunkel haters "melanoidally challenged" then ?

 

I doubt you would admit that any Pilsner here is close to what you have there, even if it was. Anyway since no one will ever drink the "real" PU again what's the point of posting about it?

 

The point being, he doesn't care to find any of those sort of beers. Stahl grew up with great, fresh beer all around him, he never wanted for anything more. I grew up with Meisterbrau, Old Style, and Olympia -- I was part of the generation clamoring for good stuff. Had I been born in Regensburg or Munich (>sigh< even Würtzburg) I would probably not care about the U.S. Micro-Boom® either.

Hey… wait…

 

Quite clear. Now consider the implications of the following for your argument/claims.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2012/jun/22/changing-tastes-the-wandering-palate

BTW, much of the article is based on research data. And it has clearly been demonstrated that sometimes the change is in the drinker not in the beverage. :-)

 

You can always lobby Dan Carey to make his Bohemian Lager again -- that stuff was a dead ringer for the old Urquell!

 

Lagunitas Pils. I was actually surprised by how much I enjoyed it. It's just a really well done example of the style.

 

Sometimes?

But I tend to agree with the assessment on Pilsner Urquell because of their changes in brewing methods -- especially dropping the oak layering casks.

 

Just a hunch but I bet the high brows in Narragansett wouldn't want an industrial size brewery in their backyahd...they'd still claim it as their own but would much prefer it in the Bucket - kinda like the Providence airport.

 

Well, without a blind taste test we'll never know for sure. Such bits of knowledge of changes in process have been shown to have powerful effects in the absence of any detectable changes in the end result.

 

I say the bulldoze a couple of those mansions on Ocean Rd. and drop it right there. Beach front brewery. Imagine the festivals they could throw!

 

Probably not, but you have to give credence to knowing that the barrels probably imparted different flavors than the stainless steel does (or doesn't). Look at all the debate over different Chardonnays.

Not to mention the NG Bohemian Lager I mentioned above -- aged in oak and took on a completely different character than any other Pilsner I'd ever had (and yeah, I had Urquell back in the day, but as you rightly point out there's no way I can really recall the flavor… but the ghost is there ).

 

Honestly, I think it to be completely fair to historically compare old to new PU. I trust Stahlsturm's judgement on how the beer has changed. I think that it's different as well, but the newer- not as good version- is often fresher than the older version we drank years ago- so that adds a different twist. Also, if you have been to Stahlsturm's part of the world, you know the quality that is readily available. If you haven't been, you would more than likely have a completely different view on German beer.

 

I know exactly how he feels.I was quite happy with the restricted beers I grew up with and regard choice as overrated if you can already find what you want.I'm not impressed by a restaurant with an enormous menu; it's probably out of the freezer anyway. Much rather visit a place with a tiny menu consisting of well cooked fresh ingredients. I don't care if elephants' ears aren't available because I don't bloody well want them.

 

Some ‘spirited’ discussion about Pilsner Urquell.

It is true that PU was once fermented in wooden vessels and now are fermented in stainless steel vessels. It is worth noting that the old wooden vessels were lined with pitch so the beer did not make contact with the fermenter’s wood.

In the Oxford Companion to Beer, Roger Protz states:

“ ….matured there for 70 days in large wooden vessels lined with pitch. The pitch sealed the wood…”

Cheers