German craft beer

Discussion in 'Germany' started by einhorn, Dec 20, 2012.

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  1. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    I heard these again and again... explains the cultures to a T.
     
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I know of many Americans who are not ‘stopped’ by illegality. All you have to do is get on a highway and you might (just might) be able to count on one hand the number of people traveling the speed limit. I am of the strong opinion that the American society is an opportunist society; if there is a reasonable expectation that you can achieve your goals without getting severely punished then most Americans will take advantage of that opportunity.

    Now the majority of Germans will never consider breaking the law even if they perceive a benefit there.

    Totally different cultures.

    Cheers!

    P.S. To make this beer related: I always take the opportunity to drink quality beer!:slight_smile:
     
  3. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    I was a little rushed when I posted, as we were heading off to Bell's Eccentric Day. So here is a better quote.
    "In Germany every everything is forbidden unless it is specifically allowed.
    In America everything is permitted unless it is specifically permitted.
    In France it is all negotiable. :wink:"

    One could put Italy in place of France.
     
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  4. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

     
  5. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Maven (1,363) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Worst Nightwatchman's Tour ever?
     
  6. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Just this week, Pax Bräu's newest Bierkalender 2014, was published. I got a copy of it, scanned and uploaded it as a pdf file. Click here and think you should be able to view it. I'll comment on the new editions later. The key point to note, though, is that his Sudmenge, or batch amount, has doubled from 1,000 to 2,000 L. That means success and twice as much demand as he expected last year.

    I'll also translate the newer ones... later. The Bierkalender 2014 came shipped with 2 bottles of Pacifator and 1 bottle of the Vollbier. The g/f & I drank the 1L bottle of Vollbier within an hour, damn it was good, smokey, lots of caramel malts, a little hoppy. If you don't order it on biershop-bayern, it's your own damn fault for never having tried it.
     
    #406 boddhitree, Dec 19, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  7. danfue

    danfue Initiate (0) Sep 16, 2012 Germany

    I finally visited Rheinhessen-Bräu today! I had wanted to do this for ages, but never managed to do it. You can buy their beers directly at the brewery on Saturday mornings.
    It's the closest independent brewery next to me, in a rural village that belongs to the city of Mainz, about 25 km from my home. The brewery is fairly new (about 15 years I think), but there is a whole lot of history in the family that runs this. They have been working in agriculture and viniculture for generations, as so many families in those parts. Meaning, that today they grow their own barley and wheat for the beers they brew.
    I didn't have much time this morning and my 2-year old wasn't too keen on staying there too long, so I just grabbed one bottle (1-liter-bombers!) of each style they have. Unfortunately the Winterbock (released Nov. 28) wasn't available anymore. So I got their regular lineup: Helles, Dunkles and a Weizen. Plus, what the guy called a "Gourmetbier" named "Rotkehlchen" (=>redbreast), a top-fermenting red ale. I'm anxious to try all these and will let you know.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. BrewZ

    BrewZ Initiate (0) Aug 5, 2008 Germany

    Just wanted to touch on some of the talk about dry-hopping and the RHG in German brewing. To confirm whatanicepub, dry-hopping can only be completed with hops in their natural form (no extracts). See:

    http://www.private-brauereien.de/pb...toffe/2012/2012_02_6-03.php?navanchor=1010020

    They specifically want German brewers to know that dry-hopping is allowed under the RHG. This was specifically confirmed by the president of the Bavarian Brewers Association back in early 2012 (http://fzarchiv.sachon.de/pdf/Getra...2/BI_03-12_33_Horst_Dornbusch_aus_den_USA.pdf). Sorry for all the German sources, but I am sure Google can produce decent translations of the text.

    My understanding is that, before the BBA declared dry-hopping "legal" under the RHG, the process could be completed in breweries and was a grey area. I have heard brewers claiming that it would break the "Lebensmittel- und Futtermittelgesetzbuch" law. Thier motivation in saying it could in part be because of the Germans not wanting to lose the RHG in German brewing culture. German brewers are going to fight to the death for the RHG and don't want to see it get watered down by introducing new methods. See a video from "The Leading Beers" with a variety of panelists and opinions: http://theleadingbeers.com/ (see "Experten Talk TV" on the homepage...sorry, only in German).

    Personally, I don't see what the big deal is with people complaining about the RHG. Brewers can brew with other ingredients, but the labeling of the beer has to be void of the word "beer" and could obviously then not claim to be brewed as RHG. Or maybe I am simplifying the issue?

    Lastly, I have heard that dry-hopping was completed in the 70s and 80s by German brewers, although I have yet to see any references. Does anyone have any sources?
     
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  9. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Via Stan at Appellation Beer and the NY Daily News:
    http://www.nydailynews.com/life-sty...-craft-beer-market-new-hops-article-1.1561607

    My favorite, and the most telling quote in the story?
    Of course there's:
    :wink:
     
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  10. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    This grocery and food law, I wonder how old it is and when exactly dry-hopping was considered out of bounds because of it. I sometimes get a sense with German brewers that tradition is only as old, and as sacred, as the latest law-amendment. Nothing unique of course for a business, but if one tries to move beyond the latest change(s) in the law, when exactly did the law, and the brewers start to ban the use of dry-hopping in Germany? Are we talking about a 50 year old timespan, a century, several centuries?.
     
    #410 Crusader, Jan 7, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2014
  11. danfue

    danfue Initiate (0) Sep 16, 2012 Germany

    That's the typical reaction if you are only used to the standard Pilsners. Interesting read there. Mandarina Bavaria is indeed an interesting type of hops. Very nice, rather subtle aromas of citrus, but not as "in your face" as Cascade or Citra.
     
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  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I enjoyed a Pale Ale that Victory Brewing made using Mandarina Bavaria hops. It tasted just as you described: “Very nice, rather subtle aromas of citrus, but not as "in your face" as Cascade or Citra.”

    Below is a description of CBC Mandarina Pale Ale from the Victory website:

    “CBC Mandarina Pale Ale

    Pale Ale

    A blend of German pils and caramel malts combine with German Mandarina and dry-hopped Mandarina to create a full bodied, citrus-hopped brew with a pleasant bitter finish and lots of hop flavor.
    Composition

    ABV: 6.0%

    Availability: Special one-time release, March 2013”

    Prost!
     
  13. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    That's my reaction to most of the new "innovative" beers here in the US -- and I'm not used to only the "standard Pils." :wink:
     
  14. BrewZ

    BrewZ Initiate (0) Aug 5, 2008 Germany

    Just to make myself clear, dry-hopping isn't banned by the food additive law in Germany. That might have been a mere argument from some brewers against dry-hopping and also adding amendments to the RHG, or what is currently known as preliminary beer law (vorläufige Biergesetz). That is of no concern now because the the GBA explicitly said that dry-hopping is allow and support an amendment of the preliminary beer law. This is their proposed ammendment:

    "Das Hopfenstopfen mit der Zugabe von Naturhopfen oder naturbelassenem Hopfen in jeder Produktionsphase ist zulässig."

    "Dry-hopping is allowed for the addition of raw or natural hops in every part of beer production."

    Dry-hopping, to my knowledge, has never been defined as being banned or allowed by law.
     
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  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Thank you for thoughtful post.

    Permit me to ask an associated question: to your knowledge was there a ‘perception’ amongst German brewers that dry hopping was not 100% approved? Do you think there was a time period (recently) where German brewers decided not to dry hop their beers out of some concern on whether it was 100% appropriate to do so?

    Cheers!
     
  16. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Ok, here in FfM, we got a new mini-brewery/mini-bar in the heart of Nordend. They opened today and I was lucky enough to stumble upon in while walking the dog. First, Lucky demanded we leave after only 1 beer, well, because he doesn't like beer. Unlucky for Lucky, we stayed to sample all 3 of their beers.

    The place is called Braustil, or "Brew-style," a pretty unimaginative name IMO, but one that fits the clientele I saw there today: 50+, fake-bake, super stylish Après Ski with more money than taste, the typical Kitzbühel upper crust. Don't know if that means anything to Americans, but those in Germany can chime in if they understand and can translate it better.

    Here in this pic you can see the ENTIRE area to sit inside, also you can see the clientele isn't exactly hipster, unless the 50+ German hipsters are the mainline.
    [​IMG]
    Anyway, this building is on the grounds of an old gas station with a building above it and the gravel is where the cars would drive through and gas up.
    Here's the mash-tun, I think:
    [​IMG]

    Not quite sure what this is, maybe a bottle filler?
    [​IMG]

    The self-serve window...btw, it was in the mid 30sF:
    [​IMG]

    The 3 beers listed - Helles, Dunkeles and a Bernstein Premier (Amber):
    [​IMG]

    First beer, the Bernstein, which was said to be a top-fermenting:
    [​IMG]
    As you can see, very cloudy, unfiltered.

    BERNSTEIN:slight_frown:0,2L glass) beer was also too cold to evaluate really, but here goes.
    Aroma: little to speak of, weak, maybe cheese as the only aroma. In the front, a tad hops, noble only, though a very little spicy and somewhat tart. Mid:stuck_out_tongue:ils and pale malt flavors, a little caramel. Back: some more light caramel and pils malts. Overall- not bad, mostly malt flavor with some tartness but not exciting.
    2nd. the Dunkeles:

    [​IMG]
    Dunkles: Aroma- a little pils malt but not much else. Flav- Front: bitterness and some floweriness of noble hops. Mid: some roasted malts, a little caramel, tartness and noble hop bitterness. Back, some caramel malts. Not bad for a Dunkles, but not near wow much better tha FSB (Fernsehbier) but still... I'd expected more.
    Finally, the Pils:
    [​IMG]
    Pils: Aroma- a little pils malt but then, nada. Flav- Front- lots of noble hops with some lemon flavor, some tartness, taste like Saphir, nice.
    Mid: it's got bitterness of hops, nothing overwhelming bit nice floral flavs. Back, lots of pils malts, caramel, tartness. Overall, very nice and best of 3.​

    The place: Oederweg 55 - 57 in FfM.
     
  17. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    While I feel your schicki-micki pain, from a marketing standpoint, this is quite the advance for beer in Germany, maybe more specifically die Bierwüste Frankfurt. It's these types of places that Early Adapters enjoy going to and being seen at (sehen und gesehen werden, gell?) so while I groan at some of the clientele with you, this is good for beer in general. Based on the reviews, they may have a way to go, but in the end it's progress vs. Binding, Henninger and Licher.
     
  18. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    If that's what Germany needs, I respectfully return my ticket.
     
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  19. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    As a Beer Advocate, tell us how you would get Max Mustermann more interested in beer.
     
  20. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Depends on what area of Germany s/he's from. Bier brauch Heimat.
     
    #420 herrburgess, Jan 19, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2014
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