Seeking advice on brewing witbiers

I think the only advantage is that raw wheat is generally cheaper than flaked; they are interchangeable otherwise. The only real difference is flaked wheat doesn't need to be milled.

 

No, I just mash it like any other grains

 

Flaked & torrified wheat are pre gelatinized, raw is not.

See above, flaked & torrified are pregelatinized, raw is not. See farther above to see that this may not have any effect due to gelatinization temp of wheat at mash temps.

Flavor and degree of haze is different, since the flaked has been rolled and heated while rolling.

Threshold for maximizing haze may be different too (Not positive though). According to Brewing with Wheat, a little raw wheat will give you haze, however when you go to higher amounts, say 40%, you actually get less haze, as the protein aggregates get too big and drop out of solution. A difference in the state of the protein in flaked/torrified vs. raw due to heat or steam treatment, may alter the sweetspot for haze formation.

 

A number of folks made mention of coriander. IMHO, coriander is a must for brewing an authentic Witbier. I personally use whole seeds of 'regular' coriander; these seeds are round in shape. Coriander provides a nice citrusy taste to the beer. I use 1 tablespoon of coriander seeds which I crack in a pestle & mortar (or you can crack them with the back of a spoon). I took note that @barfdiggs made some mention of a hot dog flavor. In the 17+ batches of Witbier that I have homebrewed I have never noticed this. An alternative is Indian coriander which has an oblong seed. What I have read is that Indian coriander provides a more fruity type flavor (one BA likened the flavor to Fruity Pebbles cereal).

In any case, I strongly recommend you add coriander (seeds) to your recipe.

There was also some discussion about orange peel. The classic orange peel in a Witbier is Curacao Orange Peel (Bitter Orange Peel). Even though there is a name of "orange" in it, Curacao Orange Peel actually provides an herbal type flavor (it does not provide a citrusy flavor; the coriander does that). If you desire to make a traditional Witbier than you should use Curacao (Bitter) Orange Peel which comes in a dried form.

Good luck with your Witbier!

Cheers!

 

Not in a wit, but I brew a jasmine ale (basically a blonde ale as the base with jasmine Jazz tea leaves) that makes them panties drop.

 

Indian Coriander seeds taste like lemon.
The round ones taste like pine/grass.

 

I purchase coriander from my LHBS; the vendor is Brewer's Garden:


As you can see in the photograph these seeds are round; they are not Indian Coriander which has an oblong seed shape.

The Brewer's Garden coriander provides a citrusy flavor to Witbiers.

Cheers!

 

Lemony:


Piney/Grassy:



It doesn't matter who puts them in the bag.

 

Nothing but citrus in the round seeds of the Brewer’s Garden product.

Cheers!

 

Try the Indian sometime. You'll be surprised at the difference.

 

A local brewpub utilizes Indian Coriander in brewing their Wit. The brewer actually brought the seeds out from the brewery and let me see (and hold them). That brewpub does indeed make a tasty Wit. I have even given that brewer some of my homebrewed Wits and he really liked them; my Wits have a very nice balance of citrus (from the round coriander) and herbal notes (from the Curacao Orange Peel).

Cheers!

 

Yea so flaked wheat doesn't need to be mashed because of that, right? For the all grain brewer they are interchangeable though.

Raw wheat is also pretty tough to mill. Its harder than barley and a bit smaller so you may have to adjust your crush.

 

flaked wheat still needs to be mashed, otherwise its just starch

for wheat berries, i toss them in a flour mill or in a blender and grind them up

 

So what does pregelantinized mean for us brewers?

 

for wheat? nothing

for something like corn a lot, if you dont gelatinize the starch you cannot convert it in a mash.

In the graph above I seem to recall that the black bars actually indicate the starting temp (left side) for gelatinization, and the minimum temp required (right side) for complete gelatinization

In other words for the starch sources listed, those that have the right side of their gelatinization range at or below normal mash temps dont require anything extra. Those that have the gelatinization range fall above normal mash temps need to be gelatinized through flaking or boiling

 

I have made a number of wit beers. Based on my experience, I believe that one can make a great wit using malted wheat rather than raw wheat. This does go against standard advice/wisdom, but I'm only reporting on my experience. My last wit, which medaled at the 2012 Beehive Brewoff, used lemon zest rather than orange. I agree that coriander is necessary. Other spices can also be used, but restraint is key. I once made one with cardamon where the cardamon was not subtle -- it was pretty awful. Randy Mosher's Radical Brewing has good info on spices that one might use. Lastly, WLP400 is a great wit yeast.

 

This post is in response to the Indian/Occidental (or whatever the round coriander is referred to) debate that is going on. Coriander without a specification will refer to the round, Indian Coriander will be specified.

Coriander is one of my favorite spices to cook with. In my 15 year career in food, I've used quite a bit of it. A lot of the flavor has to do with age. When using coriander, I tend to get a citrusy, floral character when used as the showcase, however, you usually want to use it as an amalgamating spice; something that brings the other flavors together. It works very well in this regard. The references I see in homebrew literature and in this thread to celery, piney/grassy, hot dogs, vegetal, etc. may be from old product, or from bringing together flavors in a beer that just don't pop to begin with. I use coriander extensively in my spiced homebrews in small amounts, and it works well to brighten them up without being obtrusive.

(As a side note, hot dog processors spice them differently depending on the region they are to be sold. Maybe on the west coast they are full of the brightness to offset the earthiness that I think of in southern Mediterranean cuisine, I don't know, ECFU)

Indian coriander, however, is dope. I find it to be much more fruity and can easily dominate the flavor of anything you use it in. I have yet to use it in a beer, but when making a chutney or pickling fruit it is essential.

So I guess it depends on how you want to go. All in all, I think that if you can find whole coriander seeds that haven't been sitting on a shelf forever, use them. If you want to try something new, maybe try to seek out the Indian.

 

It means you can actually convert the long chain starches to fermentable sugars an dextrins during the mash; in other words, the starches are accessible for the enzymes present in the mash that allow conversion.

As ryane said, for wheat, since the gelatinization range is already in the range for the mash, it doesn't make a difference. But for corn, for example, if you don't cereal mash or buy flaked corn/maize, you won't get conversion.

 

Did they taste piney/grassy to you?

Cheers!