India Pale Lagers (IPL)

Sure, they have a lager counterpart to what every 'fashionable' brewery is doing with ales, but they still brew tasty, lager-specific styles. I definitely don't think that's an overstatement.

And to your statement that "they are the king of everything lagers for people who really want an ale," are you saying that for people who want traditional, lager-specific styles they aren't worthy? Also, if they only stayed within lager-specific styles, no ground would be broken as far as lagering is concerned. So what's the problem? Your comments seem to devalue their skill based on the premise that their specialty in brewing pale lagers is gimmicky. Can you name any other American brewers that put out good lagers as consistently as JA?

 

Ya, I have to be another forerunner to recommend Wolverine State from Michigan. They're starting to become pretty huge in the state, I see more and more coming from them since I found them last summer, only 6 months ago or so. They make pretty world class lagers, I'm a huge fan of their Gulo IPL, their dark lagers and dunkels, and their winters. They don't do very many ales, which is a refreshing, if extremely rare pace. Only sucks that the brewpub is an hour drive from my house =D

 

For sure Jacks Abbey. I wish they distributed here. I had hoppinus, mass rising, smoke and dagger, and jabby brau all last week and loved them.

 

And my point to the IPL question follows this line of thinking, that being: Why? We already have so many beers "showcasing" fruity, citrusy, piny hops -- why add a gimmick?

@TongoRad -- I have tried a couple IPLs and the only thing I could wonder is my query above. To me they may as well have been APAs. None of the true German-style lager character comes through (as if there are numerous U.S. breweries who can actually capture that character) and you're left with Jack's Abby mission statement. To me, I like a good traditional Munich Helles, or an American Pale Ale, or even an American IPA -- but there seems no sense in attempting to blur the lines when I can usually find all 3 when I want them.

 

I call bullshit. JA is the king of lagers for people who really don't appreciate traditional lager forms.

 

India is a surrogate for hoppy. Get used to it. Calling it a. Pale lager doesn't break it out from say a Michelob.

 

Victory, Great Lakes, Olde Mecklenburg. I could go on. There are a good deal of breweries putting out consistently good lagers. JA is not the only game in town.

For the most part, yes. They have a couple of traditional style lagers, but it's not their focus. The focus seems to really be pulling in ale lovers with lagers that simulate the flavor profile of ales.

I never questioned that the beer is good, and I enjoy it very much. That is not the point of the post at all.

They've broken little new ground to begin with. Was there never a hoppy lager before? Did barrel aged baltic porters never exist? Is flavoring a schwarzbier something truly innovative? No. The ground they have broken are in the creations (Baby maker, Sour Time, Berliner Braun, etc) that provide beers for the ale-centric tickers that they can still call a lager. Which brings me back to my main point.

JA is a fantastic brewery, and easily one of my favorite locally. I do not devalue them at all. That doesn't change the transparency of what they are shooting for with most of the lagers they brew. There's nothing wrong with that model, but it does not make them the king of lagers.

 

It seems that you are still looking at them as a lager. I look at them as though they are IPAs, just bottom fermented ones. Sort of like how Baltic porters could be either bottom or top fermented, depending on the brewer's preference/intent. I am not so sure I'd describe using lager yeast/techniques as a gimmick so much as it's a way to produce a beer on the drier part of the IPA spectrum, with the most neutral signature possible (as opposed to the other end which are fuller and fruitier).

 

I, too, look at them as if they are IPAs, and can appreciate in theory what they are doing with the yeast to "neutralize" any characteristics in order to let the hops shine even more. Totally get that (well, again, in theory...need to try them first to see if I truly totally agree).

Still, I can understand steveh's perspective as well. Jack's Abby is obviously using the "lager" appellation to differentiate its beers from the glut of other U.S. "craft" IPAs. In that sense, they do seem guilty of using the term primarily as a marketing tool (or "gimmick") more than for any traditional characteristics contributed by the lager yeast or the technique.

 

Ignoring the marketing gimmick doesn't change the fact that it's a gimmick -- and another IPA to add to the glut.

But it's the same "style" and it's not like they invented a new name for the bottom-fermented variety to grab attention. And (usually) you can't tell the difference between top or bottom-fermented with a Baltic Porter. If you look at the history of the beer, the bottom-fermenting brewers were still attempting to make the same style, just using the "new" methods that they thought would become the norm.

There are so many IPAs on the market, I've found both dry and fruity, or well-attenuated with a fruit character from hops only. I'm sticking to the marketing gimmick opinion, there's just no other reason to "invent" this beer other than trying to garner more share.

 

I don't. Point me to an example and I'll try it to see if I can see what you're seeing.

 

If given two beers blindly, can one taste a difference between a similarly hopped IPA vs an IPL?

 

As a follow up, I have had a half dozen different IPL beers and all of those beers had the aspects of being dry, crisp, and clean. The IPL beers that I have consumed had a definitely different characteristic from the numerous IPAs that I have tasted.

Cheers!

 

I am not sure that the word "taste" is 100% applicable. There is most definitely a difference in character in that the IPL will be dry, crisp, and clean.

Cheers!

 

Went back and edited my post to say I "get it" in theory only, since I've yet to have any JA beers. I will say, however, that I know from my homebrewing that a typical lager yeast like 34/70 really does finish very "clean." In a traditional lager such as a Helles, this clean finish serves to invite the drinker back for more of the bready maltiness balanced by the herbal, earthy hops. In an IPL, I can imagine the clean finish invites the drinker back for -- what else -- more hops. Again, in theory, I can imagine this being more appealing than many IPAs that have a bit of a yeasty "bite" in the finish...and may fatigue the palate the more you drink of them. At this point, all of this is purely speculation on my part. Maybe @TongoRad can chime in to see if I'm even remotely making sense here....

 

Olde Mecklenberg is traditional Pils and German style Alts, this really isn't the profile of the JA brews I've had, but JA brews are killer good, and really are not encroaching on the IPA level, at least to my taste.

 

But I've tasted plenty of IPAs that finish clean, without a yeasty bite -- and it's the "more hops" that end up fatiguing my palate!

There are so many different incarnations of IPA that I imagine it would be pretty difficult. If you poured 2 beers, told the drinker one was IPA and the other IPL the drinker might be able to separate them, but if you poured 4 or 5 samples and mixed one IPL in with the IPAs, I doubt it would be as easy.

 

Jacks Abby not only makes great beers but they are cool people to visit and the brewery is a fun little place. definitely a brewery I support.

 

Jacks Abby End Thread!