India Pale Lagers (IPL)

Well, I can't read minds if they don't use the damn smiley option now, can I?

 

I hear you. Though I've managed to make a mental list of those partial to lager beer yet dismissive of American hoppy ales by now, which enables me to distinguish between genuine ignorance about lager beer, and pure spite .

 

Definitely have to mention Cigar City Torcedores Series Ben Romano's India Pale Lager. Soooo good.

 

That could be. I think it would be interesting/fun to compare the 2.

 

See, that's a bad assumption because I enjoy a good, hoppy beer now and again, while atthe same time I appreciate a good, well-brewed lager. It shouldn't be assumed that one can only like one or the other -- just one or the other that's done well!

 

Well I'd like to think that this is the case, and to some extent I think it is, but there's this pride thing on the one hand, and a percieved oneupmanship on the other hand, which makes people who like lager beer seem like douchebags when confronted with someone who doesn't like lager beers. The way I see it people can dismiss the stuff I like as much as they want, I don't mind it, but if they attack me personally for my taste I'll bite back. I see alot of the craft ale drinkers as dismissive of lager beer, but they're not attacking people who drink lager beer, and so I feel like I can let it slide without being snarky or condescending.

I would like for people to discover the joys of well made lager beer, but it's not a crusade of mine, wink wink. I don't take it personally if people enjoy other styles over the styles I prefer. Snark on the other hand is something that grinds my gears.

 

And that difference is not negligible.

 

Whoa- it looks like the discussion has moved on since my last post, so I'll try to be brief with a few answers.

Even 'neutral' ale yeasts will give off more estery qualities than lager yeast, but that's only a part of what I think is a conceptual advantage. Lager yeast will also consume a few more saccharides than ale yeast (raffinose, maltotriose, maybe one or two others)- and it's primarily that drier, crisper presence on the palate that I think makes a difference here. I have definitely noticed this quality in the Jack's Abby IPLs that I have had (Hoponius Union, Kiwi Rising, Mass Rising), and JackHorzempa made the same observation in post #95. It's not so much about palate fatigue, as it is about offering a more 'pure' experience.

Fine- I suppose there does seem to be a marketing aspect to selling the beer, but to me a gimmick suggests that there is no substance behind the image. In the case of JA beers (which is all I'm really talking about right now) they are offering an IPA with a difference, at least one that I can pick up on, and one that I can see myself gravitating towards.

I'm still not so sure they 'invented' a beer, which is pretty much what I was getting at before, although it could be that Beer Enthusiasts are agitating in that direction.

Who knows where this could go? For all I know, I have only had the pinnacle of what is being offered, and there are some crappy versions out there. This could just be a (mostly) dead end like Belgian IPAs.

Personally, when I was brewing I tried to make my IPAs in this particular way except with ale yeast (Wyeast #1007) at cool temperatures- so this concept has a certain appeal to me. I may have even said "why didn't I think of that?" about the use of lager yeast when I heard about it. And at this point, I'm thinking that JA managed to pulled it off.

 

Well, obviously I'm guilty of this. If I haven't apologized to anyone I've offended in a personal message (which I've often tried to do), I'd like to apologize here.

That said, what grinds my gears and tends to trigger my "snarkiness" is the tendency of many in the U.S. "craft" scene to see beer as a competition -- with lagers widely being considered inferior to ales. But instead of "biting back" (as you say), I'm instead trying to simply repeatedly point out what should be obvious, namely that beer is not a competition.

I also try to point out that a rating system like Michael Jackson's would better frame the context of debates about whether an IPL (or U.S. "craft" pils, Helles, etc.) is authentic simply by determining whether it does/doesn't fall on Jackson's scale of "being typical of the country and/or style" -- without the implication that one interpretation/style/category of beer is somehow, numerically or otherwise, superior to another. But that's another subject for another time/place.

To bring this back to IPLs, I would say they are typical of U.S. "craft" styles -- showcasing and emphasizing a typical American C-hop profile -- and thus should not be compared to German lagers. I'd still maintain, however, that the use of the differentiator "lager" in a sea of India pale "ales" is a conscious marketing ploy.

 

Agreed. That was my first try at an IPL. On tap at Ballast Point. I was pleasantly surprised!

 

Right the point was it is not a style as much as a method of fermenting in this case...

 

Ok

 

Sounds like you have some serious @$$holes for friends mate!

Cheers