Chinook + ? for American IIPA

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Alex-by, Feb 19, 2014.

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  1. Alex-by

    Alex-by Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2012 Belarus

    Hi guys,

    Inspired by American IIPAs I want to brew something really bitter, hoppy and Imperial :slight_smile: Living in eastern Europe it's not easy to get US hops, but that's what I have:
    - Amarillo
    - Cascade
    - Centennial
    - Columbus
    - Summit
    - Warrior

    My last experiment was '71 IBU Amarillo single hop' with late hopping (~50% of hops were added between 10 and 0 last mins of boiling).

    This time I want something piney and grapefruity/citrusy, but not floral.

    1. 30gr Chinook - 60min (14ibu)
    2. 30gr Chinook - 30min (11ibu)
    3. 40gr Chinook - 15min (9ibu) <- by this moment I hope to get a nice bitterness and piney flavor. Will I?

    4. Xgr Cascade/Centennial/Amarillo 10min
    5. Xgr Cascade/Centennial/Amarillo 5min
    6. Xgr Cascade/Centennial/Amarillo 3min
    7. Xgr Cascade/Centennial/Amarillo 0min

    8. Xgr for dry hopping at day 0

    Centennial seems to be a little bit piney too which is good. Cascade is a little bit floral... Amarillo is pretty floral as well.

    Can you suggest which aroma hops to pick for aroma (steps 4-7)? Should I also add Warrior for a clean bitterness somewhere on steps 1-3? What to add for a dry hopping (first time I will be adding dry hops, so no idea on what to expect).

    Thanks in advance,
    Alex
     
    inchrisin likes this.
  2. OPJohn

    OPJohn Initiate (0) Oct 5, 2013 Florida

    I'd just use Chinook straight through. Stone uses Chinook exclusively for all phases in Arrogant Bastard. They mash the malts around 148f for a cleaner, crisper malt flavor and only use Chinook. Then, the beer gets a fresh hops punch through a hops rocket (guess what, more Chinook) before it's bottled. They use WLP 007 yeast (very fast fermenting, good floc, great attenuation) but any IPA strain would work well.
     
  3. MarriedAtGI

    MarriedAtGI Zealot (569) Feb 26, 2013 Illinois

    You could bitter with Warrior to take the edge off the bitterness, or a mix of Chinook and Warrior. Then for your late hopping, use two parts Centennial to one part Chinook at 15, 10, 5, FO, and DH. This will give you mainly citrus with a note of spice and/or pine.
     
  4. sjverla

    sjverla Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts

    I don't have the exact hopping schedule with me, but I brewed a single IPA that came out awesome. It was roughly 2 parts Cascade, 1.5 parts Centennial and Simcoe, 1 part Chinook and bittered with Warrior. I dry hopped with equal parts Cascade, Chinook and Simcoe. It was probably ~6 oz total between 15-0.
     
  5. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    I'd say with what you have.. centennial would be great in there, or dare I say.. Columbus even, but you'd be slightly low on the citrusy notes, and upped on the danky, herbal, piney notes with that route.
     
  6. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    You have some good hops to work with. Chinook is definitely more assertive (I call it harsh) and can add some pine if really fresh. In my opinion, Centennial is much more citrus than anything else . . . I don't get floral from Amarillo, mostly citrus . . . floral notes from Cascade will be hidden if mixed with a couple of the above. Of course this is all subjective.

    I make a couple of IIPAs and offer the following tips (using 30gr = 1 US ounce): For a 20L batch I would add ~120gr of late hops (<15 minutes). I would mix at least two of the above and three is certainly okay. At flame out I let the wort cool below boiling before adding the final round of hops. Ideally you want to whirlpool, a pump is ideal but stirring will also work, down to about 160-170F. In this range you are not interested in alpha acids, rather you want the oils to be absorbed by the wort. This will be the source of a nice aroma, too hot and they evaporate. Here's my reference for lots of details on hops characteristics.

    For dry hopping consider another 120gr. Conventional wisdom is 7 days, but some brewers double this. Here's the technique used in one of the most popular Imperial IPAs around, calls for 14 days. I done this a couple of times with good results.

    Things to consider: Plan on the wort/beer absorbing ~90ml of liquid for each 30gr of hops. Hop freshness is critical; oxygen, high temps, and light are killers. This is easy to control once you get your hops, but be careful with your supply chain. Hops like Cascade can fade over 50% in as little as six months if stored poorly. It's most effective to just toss your hops in the wort, but hop debris will be massive. A good (and easy) compromise is a paint strainer bag (nylon) to contain the debris. Good luck and please post back with your results. I would really be interested in how Europeans react to a good old American hop bomb.
     
  7. Alex-by

    Alex-by Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2012 Belarus

    Guys, Thanks for you replies - really helpful!

    I have such hop bags - will they be fine for boiling? Holes are pretty big... Given I make my recipe (and calculate IBU) in BeerSmith, how much IBU (in %) I will lose by boiling hops in bags and what corrections should I apply?


    Russian River Pliny the Elder and Younger are #1 and #2 beers in my wish lists! You will never get it in Europe :slight_frown: But looking at the recipe you've mentioned above, it seems the Elder is a little bit piney with lots of fruits (passionfruit, apricot, tangerine) and a some citrus, right?

    I will :slight_smile: I can tell you some Europeans react very well on American hop bombs (me especially). It's hard to get it here, but when I buy some of US beers (Port Brewing, Lost Abbey, AleSmith, Anderson Valley, Founders, Green Flash, Stone, Firestone, Hoppin' Frog or even Anchor) I'm the happiest man around. My friend shared a bottle of Dogfish Head 90 Minute Imperial IPA - that was fantastic :slight_smile:

    99.9% people like sweet lagers though :slight_frown:

    Thanks,
    Alex
     
  8. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    I haven't used those bags, but they are probably okay. Be aware, if you are brewing 20L the hop are going to swell into something rather huge. It will be heavy, messy, and you should have another bucket to toss them into. You will probably need multiple bags . . . if this is first time you will be amazed at how much wort a large quantity of hops will absorb. I believe Beersmith does account for this. There is probably a loss in hop effectiveness in a bag but I ignore it. I do recommend you do not get too hung up with IBU numbers . . . you are going to make-or-break your beer with the late additions which contribute very little to the IBU count.

    Like you, I can't get Pliny either, so I brew my own. My PtE is the best homebrew I have ever made . . . it is a joy to be in the same room with a poured glass. I call it pine/citrus but again you might have it somewhere else. Oh yeah, the recipe link is an old one, they now use some Amarillo. From your description Simcoe would be an excellent hop to give you more pine flavor . . . one of my favorites. Hop-Heads to Rule the World :sunglasses: .
     
  9. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    As far as bags and wort losses go, I just sanitize my hands and grab the bags after the wort is chilled and the wort is almost all drained from the kettle and I give each bag a good ringing to get almost all of the liquid back. I lose no wort to the hops in efficiency and I get all the hop goodness with it. Works great for me; I use 2 gallon paint strainer bags fore each addition.
     
  10. Alex-by

    Alex-by Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2012 Belarus

    jbakajust1, PortLargo, thanks. I am aware of hops swelling cause I've added 200gr of Amarillo in 15 minutes and lost 15-20% of wort :slight_smile: I will definitely use bags this time.

    One more question I forgot to ask... The only easts I have for American IPA are: Safale US-05 and Danstar American West Coast Ale. US-05 did a nice job for my Amarillo single hop IPA, but I never used Danstar. I assume both are pretty crappy, but we don't have other on market... Which yeasts do you think are better?
     
  11. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    I haven't used a Chico yeast yet that I didn't like...the dry ones are convenient and pretty good, too. Some of the more attenuative English ones will make damn fine IPAs also.
     
  12. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    I think US-05 would do a good job. Never used the Danstar (I think you are referring to BRY-97) but have heard feedback that it slightly reduces hop bitterness because of high flocculation . . . but my supplier loves it. All of this is second hand info to me, third hand to you. I use liquid Wyeast 1056 for my IPAs, very neutral, and let the hops do all the talking. But I probably couldn't tell the difference if US-05 was used. Anyone out there have experience with BRY-97?

    Also, just looked at my Beersmith and it appears to not account for wort-loss to hops.
     
  13. Darthballs

    Darthballs Aspirant (289) Feb 4, 2011 Missouri

    For my piny IPAs I like to use chinook, simcoe, mosaic. Delish
     
  14. memory

    memory Zealot (700) Oct 2, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Just Chinook bittering and Cascade for flavor/aroma can make a great brew.
     
  15. Alex-by

    Alex-by Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2012 Belarus

    Hey guys,

    I will definitely boil these bags for 10 mins before dry hopping. Will you recommend to also boil hops for a min or two? I'm afraid to infect beer...
     
  16. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Bags only need to be boiled, the hops are no threat to infect your brew. What you should study is how you will make additions to the bag during the boil. Couple of methods work, just give it some thought before brewday.

    EDIT; your kettle boil will kill any bacteria, pre-boiling the hop bags is to remove any traces of manufacturing chemicals. Once used, a quick boil and/or starsan will do the trick.
     
    #16 PortLargo, Feb 27, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014
  17. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (1,060) Mar 21, 2009 Michigan

    Boil your bags for sure. I also boil 3 stainless steel ball berings to sink the hops.
     
    Eriktheipaman likes this.
  18. Eriktheipaman

    Eriktheipaman Pooh-Bah (2,303) Sep 4, 2010 California
    Pooh-Bah

    I use small shot glasses to sink mine lol
     
  19. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    I just got a few lengths of SS chain to sink mine.
     
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