It's time to be honest about styles

How about if the Bro's change the information THEY provide to "educate" people so that it is accurate?
I haven't been here for a year, but I did make an effort to read threads and read what information is available here on this site, only to be told I was still wrong.

If the Bro's list a hefeweizen under "german Ales", am I supposed to think it is not an Ale? Should it be listed under German Lagers?

 

styles were always just broad indicators anyway.

it's like a finger pointing the way to the moon. don't concentrate on the finger or you'll miss all that heavenly glory.

 

Markdrinksbeer,

I applaud your desire and tenacity to learn and understand beer and beer styles.

In my experience, what you will find is there exist multiple opinions of what's right, combined with multiple versions of history relating to beer styles. Of course, as human nature would have it, most people strongly assert their personal beliefs and understandings to be what's "right".

Regardless, it's fun to dig in and read and learn, and draw your own conclusions. If not satisfied, then you can do even more historical research.

Meanwhile, continue enjoying the world of better beer!

 

I attempted to articulate in the prior post that sometimes there is no 100% unambiguous correct answer. Let’s consider the case of a hefeweizen. Germans do not consider this beer to be an ale; I am uncertain that there is a German word for ale. The brothers categorize the hefeweizen as an ale since it is brewed with an ale yeast strain. I am not aware that there is a universally accepted authority for deciding whether a hefeweizen is an ale or not. A German would say that a hefeweizen is a hefeweizen and likely not categorize the beer. For folks who prefer to categorize beers into types and styles, they could state that a hefeweizen is an ale (just like the brothers did).

Cheers!

 

Lots of things have fuzzy boundaries but to represent them in words or pictures we often have to create oversimplifications. Think of a topographical map for a mountain. It will have a line and color change marking off the tree line where above the line there are no trees indicated and below the line there are trees indicated. But when you are on the ground on the mountainside there won't be a line and if you find where it should be you'll see trees growing higher on the mountain, just not as thickly as the do way down the mountain below the tree line.

As others have said, you're learning and that's good. Just don't expect it all to be as simple as a single source of words and descriptions would lead you to believe.

 

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/710/89102/

 

I think you summed that up well, JackHorzempa.

I was talking with Dan Gordon last year (of Gordon-Biersch fame), who trained and got his brewing degree in Germany at Weihenstephan. I recall referring to Hefeweizen as an Ale during our conversation, and Dan -- based on his training in Germany -- indicated he doesn't classify it as such, rather it's simply Hefeweizen.

I don't claim to know the full detailed history of it, but my inkling is it may be more of a German colloquialism than anything...they never referred to their beloved Hefeweizens as ales, they were always just Hefeweizens, period.

 

Exactly. As someone else has already pointed out, distilling down to Ale or Lager is too simplified and lazy.

 

Anche io,or also I,Uinta black ipa is a very good standard for this stlye

 

For me the style label should be something that describes how the beer is going to taste. I guess there would be a problem between traditionalists who've been drinking for a long time and know tastes best according to the traditional label and newer drinkers who form their palate based on the variety of beers that are more common now. You would form your basis for categorizing beer based on the beers you're drinking the first time you branch out to multiple styles.

I wouldn't say that all hoppy beers are called IPA, so much as all beers where the hops is the predominant flavor. Very hoppy stouts are still stouts.

 

I have no doubt that there are good examples of this "style," I just thought it more of a micro-brewery gimmick, "Let's add some black malt to our IPA recipe and call it a 'Black IPA.'" I was surprised it had some historical base.

To today's examples, I've had a couple and would rather have the traditional rendition of the style.

 

Yes and "black" derives from the color black, and "Black" in this context refers to black X style. So, just like one should be able to make a Kolsh but decide to make it Black, and then call it a "Black Kolsch" the best way to describe an IPA that is black in color, would be a "Black IPA."

Also, your example of 21A Back in Black is about the worst possible example you could have picked. Back in Black comes in at 65 IBU, right smack in the middle of the 40-70 IBUs of and IPA per the BJCP and Brewer's Association guidelines.

There really is no difference between calling a stong IPA an Imperial IPA or calling a dark IPA a Black IPA. It's exactly the same thing.

 

If you take on board the notion that all top fermenting beers are ales then you are stuck with the consequences and anomalies.Porters never were ales. Arthur Guinness set up his brewery as an ale brewer. This was a failure so he decided to brew porter.He couldn't do this himself so he brought in the Purser family from London. Ale and Porter were in different families, had different trade bodies and guilds , different laws and different barrel sizes.There really isn't such a thing as an ale yeast per se, as far as ale and porter brewers were concerned they simply used the yeast which they had.They may have been the same. An analogy ;Yacht varnish doesn't have to be used only on yachts and using it doesn't make the article into a yacht!
Even in America it says ale AND Porter
different

 

Some people just can't resist the need to label.

 

I can't keep up w/ the style/classification changes and variances. Nor do I need to.

The guys at my beer store know what I like and they make recommendations.


It's like any other market. In automobiles, they have crossovers. We called them station wagons 15years ago!

Computers: laptops, notebooks, netbooks, ultra mobile PC's.....

Cell phones are Smartphones.


I think there's a George Carlin bit in here somewhere!

 

I guess I'm just simple. If a brewer calls a beer "Black IPA" then it's a Black IPA. If they call a beer an "India Black Ale" then it is. I just go along with whatever the brewer wants to call their beer because it's THEIR beer and who am I to tell the brewer that (s)he is wrong?

 

I call those type of beers "Frankenstein beers" - take a part of this beer style, attach it to parts of other styles, and suddenly - "It's ALIVE!!"

 

I think your slip nails it. If brewers used more discretion, there would be a lot less beers that are desecrations to brewing.

 

I guess a Red IPA would have to be an India Pink Ale.

 

Have I missed a trick here? Just because a bottom fermenting yeast is used somehow the beer is inevitably stored?
What's an Ale?
This category of beer uses yeast that ferments at the "top" of the fermentation vessel, and typically at higher temperatures than lager yeast
That's perfectly true.But there are other beers which use top fermenting yeasts besides ales.All ales are top fermented, not all top fermented beers are ales.
All dogs are animals doesn't mean that all animals are dogs.