Crooked Stave's Diacetyl Problem

Agreed. I drain poured a persica because of heavy butter so there definitely has been some issues (that should fade), but batch 60 has been nothing short of amazing. On draft and all of the bottles I have opened. My favorite crooked stave beer to date. I don't believe anyone has tasted diacetyl on batch 60.

 

I loved Batch 60! While not a big sours fan I've enjoyed some Crooked Stave, also a little pricey for me but usually buy a couple of bottles anyways. I understand other styles better, but is it recommended that Crooked Stave beers are meant to age, to bottle condition?

 

They purposefully try to allow max. # of bottles to people to see how brett changes the beer over time. Often meant to enjoy fresh, but also every so often to see how it changes. Long term? Probably not. Not their 100% brett beers at least.

 

This was the reason they gave on leaving the limit at 6 bottles for the WWBV release when they saw how long the line was and that everyone in line wasn't going to get beers.

 

Not to pile on, but last few bottles of L'brett D'or and Batch 60 I drank (or rather tried to drink) had diacetyl problems as well. Does anyone know if this has anything to do with the CS cellar reserve delays?

 

No and I haven't had any problems with batch 60. Great beer

 

The first reserve release last year wasn't until June. I haven't had any issues with half dozen or so bottles I've consumed of batch 60 and lbrett.

 

I've consumed a case of Batch 60 and have had no problems. They poured it at WTF and I doubt that would have happened if they thought there was a problem.

 

Had Batch 60 on draft at the brewery and it was outstanding. Opened the bottle last month that I purchased at the brewery and it was a diacetyl bomb.

 

The only problems I have received with the Cellar Reserve beers was Persica #1. I have yet to open any more or any of #2 to give it some time to mellow.

 

I'm thinking people don't know what diacetyl tastes like, or if they do it must be a very small amount of bottles with this issue. No issues with any of their beers thus far. While I wasn't enthralled with Persica, it wasn't due to diacetyl.

 

This.

 

Just saw this. Yes, diacetyl is produced by yeast during ferementation. Some yeast strains produce more than others and some strains clean it up better than others once it is produced. It can show up in beer from under-pitching yeast and/or crashing (turning the temperature down) the beer before the yeast has had a chance to do its thing. Diacetyl contributes an a butterscotch or artificial butter flavor to beer. In fact, it's used to make artificial butter flavor.

As mentioned by @Prospero, Pediococcus is known for producing large amounts of diacetyl. Diacetyl can come from a post-fermentation bacterial contamination, or intentional bacterial fermentation in the case of sour beers. Brett should clean up any diacetyl produced by Pedio (which is why you usually see it used in sour beers that contain Pedio), and I would guess that other strains of saccharomyces would clean it up too as long as the cells are active.

I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but from what I understand, the whole concept of Crooked Stave is the neat and unique flavors that Brett produces when it starts consuming some of the by-products/flavors that are produced by fermentation of other organisms.

 

Persicas has cleaned up! Keep hearing from multiple people that had opened bottles recently. Thank you for secondary fermentation!

 

"some level of diacetyl" -- you just described all beer, but I know what you meant.

Bad luck, bad timing? I will preface my experience with the fact that I typically sit on all my CS bottles for 3 months if I get some fresh on tap when the beer is released. Sooo maybe I just miss the diacetyl phase if there is one... although it's curious as to why you had two bottles from the same batch and one had it and one did not, considering they were bottled at the same time and opened at same time. If you warm the beer up a few days before tasting, that typically eliminates most diacetyl (soon after bottling), but if it's dependent on the brett to clean up, it could be 3 month range (I think)

I dunno, but I will say, waiting until June of each year for the first CR release is a bit ridiculous, and if they need to sit on their bottles to have them bottle condition even longer, well that's just added insult to injury... maybe start brewing batches for Cellar Reserve 2015 now

 

I'd like to add that diacetyl also leaves a slick/oily mouthfeel on the palate. Diacetyl levels are only acceptable if none is perceived, for all styles.

 

Definitely. That's what usually does me in on a beer with the big D. The texture is just overwhelming by the end of a pint. I am, however, hypersensitive to it.

 

I've aged all of my cellar membership bottles from 2012 and am now just starting to open them and I don't see any diacetyl issues with those beers. In fact the beers taste better than ever. Give these beers some time and you'll enjoy the results.

 

Do you mean Diacetyl is only acceptable if no slickness is perceived or no Diavetyl at all? Low to med. diacetyl is acceptable in certain styles.