Inside the mind of Jim Koch

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by bubseymour, Mar 7, 2014.

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  1. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    So this could probably be said for numerous brewers and owners but anyway..So not too long ago BBC came out with the East/West Kolsch. Seemed pretty well liked by our BA crowd anyway with a 3.65 rating which for a light german style beer is a respectable score. This year they produce Escape Route Kolsch. Scores slightly lower but about the same at 3.41. Is this really the same beer with a different label with the strategy and thinking that the fickle craft crowd won't be as inclined to revisit East/West titled Kolsch but more inclined to buy a different titled but virtually the same tasting Kolsch by same brewer or did Jim actually try do an honest attempt to make a better Kolsch than his first batch? If so why? People seemed to like the East/West just fine. Anyone have theories about this? I'm sure he sprinkled in some slightly different ingredients into Escape Route but I'm sure its really subtle adjustment at best.
     
  2. DarkDragon999

    DarkDragon999 Maven (1,331) Feb 13, 2013 Rhode Island

    Kolsch just isnt popular enough for a lot of people to care. There's only 1 with over 1000 reviews.
     
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  3. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Exactly, so why is he rebranding it?
     
  4. beernuts

    beernuts Initiate (0) Jan 23, 2014 Virginia

    how do you know its not a different beer? It doesn't sound like you've tried either one, but you're "sure" its a very subtle adjustment (at best). Brewers come out with dozens of IPAs and people practically shit their pants over each one, why is this met with so much skepticism by you?
     
    kwill likes this.
  5. willbm3

    willbm3 Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2010 Massachusetts

    The title should be "Inside the mind of Jim Ko(ls)ch.

    Thanks, I'll be here all week...
     
  6. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Neither was/is a Koelsch.
     
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  7. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Brewers come out with dozens of IPAs because they are:
    a) tinkering to make the next Pliny, Heady etc.
    b) people shit their pants over each one

    Where exactly are you going with tinkering around (or not) with a solid made Kolsch?
     
  8. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    This is confusing. First you ask if the two beers are the same beer, then you claim that it is the same beer being re-branded. Which are you arguing for/asking about?
     
    Providence likes this.
  9. Mikecap

    Mikecap Pooh-Bah (2,098) May 18, 2012 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    If it's the same beer, why re-name it? Easy, because people will buy it. Look at Stone's Stochasticity Project Grapefruit Slam IPA. Simply Ruination Grapefruit Slam (draft only) rebranded. Did I buy it and enjoy it? Yes. Was it actually a new beer? I don't think so
     
  10. beernuts

    beernuts Initiate (0) Jan 23, 2014 Virginia

    It sounds like what you're saying right now is "nobody actually cares very much about Kolsch beers, so why do brewers even try?"
     
    Dan114 likes this.
  11. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Not arguing anything really. I'm assuming he did something very slightly different with the Escape Route over the previous East/West. After all the ABV is 1/100% different so clearly some drastic artistic re-crafting went on with batch 2 (sarcasm).
     
  12. DarkDragon999

    DarkDragon999 Maven (1,331) Feb 13, 2013 Rhode Island

    Because if its not popular then few people will notice thus he can get away with it.
     
  13. Givemebeer

    Givemebeer Savant (1,219) Apr 6, 2013 Vermont

    Maybe he's just trying to keep the BA crowd guessing and discussing - and thus making people want to try more Sam Adams stuff.
     
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  14. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    If there are two different recipes involved it isn't rebranding. So your question really boils down to asking why did Boston Brewing produce two different beers in the same style. Probably for the same reason Victory released Hop Ranch and Dirt Wolf within the same 12 month period.
     
    #14 drtth, Mar 7, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
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  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    A very quick research of the Sam Adams website provides the details of:

    Escape Route:

    HOP VARIETIES
    Strisselspalt and Aramis
    MALT VARIETIES
    Samuel Adams two-row pale malt blend, acidulated malt, flaked barley, and carafoam
    YEAST STRAIN
    Top-fermenting Ale
    COLOR
    Golden, veiled / 7 SRM
    ALC. BY VOL/WT
    5.0%ABV - 3.9%ABW
    IBUs
    30
    CAL PER SERVING
    147
    AVAILABILITY
    Limited Seasonal

    East/West

    HOP VARIETIES
    Spalt Spalter, Strisselspalt
    MALT VARIETIES
    Samuel Adams two-row pale malt blend, malted wheat, and Bohemian pils malt
    YEAST STRAIN
    Top-fermenting Ale
    COLOR
    Pale golden, SRM: 5
    SPECIAL INGREDIENTS
    Jasmine Sambac
    ALC. BY VOL/WT
    5.0% ABV - 3.9% ABW
    IBUs
    15
    CAL PER SERVING
    147
    AVAILABILITY
    Limited

    So, it is easy to see that East/West and Escape Route are different beers.

    Cheers!
     
  16. EnronCFO

    EnronCFO Pooh-Bah (2,193) Mar 29, 2007 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    Better question: Why did Sam Adams replace Boston Lager taps all around Boston with Rebel IPA? Everywhere I used to see Sam and Sam Seasonal, I now see Rebel IPA and Sam Seasonal. They're fighting against themselves with a mediocre product.
     
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  17. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Conspiracy theories are much more appealing than facts.
     
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  18. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Thanks for finding that Jack. So he did tinker some with the formula. I guess I don't get why is he so invested into trying to pump out a different Kolsch style just a year later? Where's the market or strategy in that? If anything they should be working on the next IPA formula. They still haven't figured that style out too well at all.
     
    Roguer likes this.
  19. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Are you implying that a well-made Koelsch wouldn't find a market?
     
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  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    At the risk of being repetitive, I started a thread a while back about Sam Adams Escape Route Kolsch. I took pains to be clear in that post that Escape Route Kolsch is not of the same ilk as a Kolsch brewed in Cologne, Germany but is a pleasant beer to drink and I personally appreciate Boston Beer Company making a beer such as this (which I presume is available nationwide?) to expose beer drinkers to a style such as this.

    While I would have preferred that Boston Beer Company brewed a beer more akin to a Cologne, Germany brewed beer I appreciate what they did with this beer.

    Here is a link to the thread I started on Escape Route Kolsch:http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/sam-adams-escape-route-kolsch.149141/

    Cheers!
     
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