Yeast sewing (Reusing a yeast. Again and again and... )

Not all the time. But if I'm going to make a really big beer, I'll make a Mild or otherwise smaller beer to use as a starter. Most recently, Windsor into a 3.5% Mild (which turned out awesome) -> English Barleywine (that ended up more as a strong ale). I debated reusing it again, but figured I had stressed it enough throwing 1.088 wort onto it and future results would be unpredictable.

US-05 though, I'll keep washing and reusing that for a while on just about anything lightish and Americanish.

 

I did a 1.045 blonde on a 1217 cake. Then turned around and put a 1.065 IPA on it. Not much hop debris in the bucket, so I removed some of the cake, washed it for later use, and pitched a 1.081 DIPA on the left over cake.

All was well, all worked out fine. All finished in 3 days, cleared and cleaned up quickly and, the most important thing, is they taste good.

No real mutant yeasts doing wild things.

 

I don't get why you couldn't just keep reusing. I mean, they multiply and so you always have a fresh generation. As long as you make a starter what's the problem? That said I haven't gone more than 3 generations, just bc I haven't been brewing that long

 

I always map out a number of brews. I probably use every yeast between 2 and 3 generations. The 2nd pitch seems to be my sweet spot. I would say most of my best beers come from that pitch.
I try to keep these things in mind (but not always), pitch from weaker to stronger gravities, pitch from lighter to darker worts, and from less hoppy to more hoppy beers.

I used to go beyond 3 pitches but for my brewhouse I've learned that I pick up too much contamination by the 4th pitch for most beers so now I stop at 3. If I'm brewing something like a DIPA that I know will be drunk fresh I'll use a 4th gen yeast. However, if my last pitch will be into a beer I plan to age, like a quad, RIS etc, then I won't pitch a 4th gen yeast. I've found that the aging period gives the contamination time to affect the beer.

 

Why do you treat dry yeast differently? (note that it's only dry the first time you use it. After that, it's virtually identical to yeast that you bought in liquid form)

 

I've been using this technique recently with good success.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/yeast-harvesting-novel-approach.html

So far I've only used a particular strain 4 times, but I wouldn't hesitate to go beyond this, since the yeast should be "younger" and there is no worries about stressing the yeast with a high gravity brew.

 

I re-use yeast all the time, but usually only twice. i don't want 15 gallons of anything with the same yeast. i will transfer while boiling. voila, a massive amount of fresh yeast ready to ferment the next beer.

one thing to keep in mind when re-using yeast is that the yeast are self selecting. you are harvesting the most flocculant. this isn't a big deal usually, but 4 or 5 generations into a hefe will matter. you are also training the yeast to adapt to your conditions. so if you ferment at a stable temperature frequently, your yeast will adapt. again, not a problem, but the yeast will mutate and eventually you have different yeast.

the Yeast book has a lot of really good info on this.
fwiw, i understand DFH began with a Pugsley/Ringwood system and still uses the same yeast today. i don't get any Ringwood profile from DFH. that is one mutated yeast.

Cheers.

 

I won't argue with the cheap part (though it's just about tripled in price during the seven years since I started brewing). But I don't reuse yeast to save money. I do it to satisfy the alchemist in me and to enhance the sense of being in control of the process. Saving money is icing on the cake.
FYI, unless you're harvesting a full dose, it does, indeed, need a starter on subsequent batches - same as liquid. As I said, once you pitch it, it's the 'same' product as liquid.

 

I basically do the same thing but instead of one 500ml on the side, I split it into 3 or 4 baby food jars and then just make another starter down the road. This way I always have 3 or 4 different yeasts in the fridge and I tend to map out my brewing so I can get at least 2 sometimes 4 beers from each starter. I generally buy yeast 1 or 2 times a year, basically when I am ready for something new.

 

We're pretty much on the same page (I make a fresh starter and split it again when using the saved yeast), but it seems like your way keeps the yeast a little younger. I might have to try it that way next time.

 

Along the same lines, you can just save some of the yeast cake from your first fermentation and use small portions of it to make starters. Then you're always on the second generation. Enough will stay alive to make a starter for a long time. I've successfully revived 3 year old lager yeast and the resulting beer was good (38 point Vienna lager). Not that I'd recommend this, and it was done as an experiment, but a few months of storage seems ok.

I never go beyond 3-4 generations; the yeast often does change perceptibly. With an actual brewery to use instead of my basement, I'd likely be comfortable extending this a little.

 

I've heard Sierra Nevada goes 21 generations with their yeast. I have no doubt their propagation facilities may be better equipped than most of us.

 

not frowned upon really, just not needed.
yeast will undergo a few metabolic cycles prior to beginning actual fermentation. oxygen uptake being the significant and final cycle iirc. dry yeast is packaged after the oxygen uptake cycle has been completed. using dry yeast in a starter does not get you any further along.

if you want more cells, use another package. the cost to make a starter is not substantial, nearly the same as one package of dry yeast. also a lot faster.

Cheers.

 

^^^ what he said ^^^
But that only applies to the first pitch. Once that's done, and the dry yeast has used up its stores of magic stuff, it's just like liquid. After harvesting, it will behave like any other yeast, and needs to be treated the same way, including starters, etc. The extra stuff it came with is gone.